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Speaker 1
Hey, Gemini.
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Speaker 2
Hi, there. What's on your mind today?
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Speaker 1
I'm recording this for a podcast. Is that okay?
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Speaker 2
Sounds great. What's the topic?
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Speaker 1
I'd like you to tell me about the Sheng Yun group in China.
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Speaker 2
Okay. Qingyun is a performing arts company that showcases classical Chinese dance and music. They're known for their elaborate costumes, storytelling, and athletic choreography. Is there anything specific you'd like to know about them?
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Speaker 1
I've heard that they are a cult.
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Speaker 2
That's a complicated question. Shen Yoon is a performing arts company that's connected to Falun Gong, which is considered a new religious movement. Some people in groups consider Falun Gong to be a cult because of its teachings and practices. It's worth noting that Qanon's performances often include content that's critical of the Chinese government's treatment of Falun Gong practitioners.
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Speaker 1
How do you spell that?
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Speaker 2
It's spelled S e n y u n.
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Speaker 1
No, the Fallon gong.
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Speaker 2
It's spelled Fallon gong.
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Speaker 1
Okay, can you, kind of go deeper into this subject and give us, like, a broad picture of what all this is?
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Speaker 2
Sure. So Shen Yoon is a New York based performing arts company that tours the world. They're known for their classical Chinese dance and music performances. It's a pretty big production, with lots of dancers, musicians, and elaborate costumes. The company was founded in 2006 by practitioners of Falun Gong, which is a spiritual practice that's been suppressed in China. Shenzhen's performances often depict stories and themes related to Falun Gong, and they're pretty critical of the Chinese government's actions.
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Speaker 2
That's why the Chinese government sees Shen Yun as a threat and has tried to stop them from performing. They view Falun Gong as a dangerous cult and don't want their message to spread. It's a pretty complex situation with strong opinions on both sides.
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Speaker 1
And where does Qingyun come into play? Here?
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Speaker 2
Shen Yun Performing Arts is based in New York. They have several performing arts groups that tour around the world.
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Speaker 1
What's their connection to Falun Gong?
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Speaker 2
Shin Eun was founded by practitioners of Falun Gong, and the company's mission is closely tied to raising awareness about the persecution of Falun Gong in China. The performances often depict scenes and stories related to the spiritual practice and its suppression by the Chinese government.
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Speaker 1
So Fathom Gong was started in oh six when Washington started.
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Speaker 2
Actually, Falun Gong was introduced to the public in China in 1992. Shen Eun was founded in 2006. Would you like to know more about the history of either?
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Speaker 1
Yeah. Tell me more about, the, the start of Falun Gong and where it originates from.
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Speaker 2
Falun Gong was introduced to the public in Northeast China in 1992 by Lee Hong ji. It gained popularity in the 1990s due to its health benefits and moral teachings. But the Chinese government began to see it as a threat to its authority. In 1999, the government launched a crackdown on Falun Gong, leading to widespread persecution of its practitioners.
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Speaker 1
Okay, you said it, it had something to do with, like, health.
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Speaker 2
Yes. Falun Gong includes gentle exercises and meditation. Many people who practice it report feeling more relaxed, less stressed, and having more energy. Some studies even suggest it can improve sleep quality and boost the immune system.
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Speaker 1
Why do some people say that it's a cult?
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Speaker 2
Some people consider Falun Gong to be a cult because of its strict rules. The control it exerts over its followers and its teachings, which can be seen as controversial. Additionally, the Chinese government has labeled it as such, which has influenced public perception.
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Speaker 1
Okay, so, let's go back to the origin of phone calls. Can you tell me a little bit about maybe their principles or what they were founded on?
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Speaker 2
Falun Gong is based on the principles of truthfulness, compassion, and forbearance. It combines gentle exercises with meditation to improve physical and mental well-being. The practice also emphasizes moral teachings and self-improvement.
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Speaker 1
You said truthfulness, compassion and forbearance.
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Speaker 1
Gemini. Did I catch that correctly? You said truthfulness, compassion and forbearance.
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Speaker 2
That's right. Truthfulness, compassion and forbearance are the core principles of Falun Gong. They're meant to guide practitioners in their daily lives and help them cultivate virtue.
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Speaker 1
What does forbearance mean?
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Speaker 2
Forbearance means showing patience and tolerance even when things are difficult or unfair. It's about being able to endure hardship without complaining or getting angry.
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Speaker 1
Okay, so, tell me about the early members of Salonga.
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Speaker 2
Early members of Falun Gong were drawn to its health benefits and many reported feeling more energetic and less stressed after practicing the exercises and meditation. The emphasis on truthfulness, compassion, and forbearance also resonated with people seeking a more meaningful way of life.
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Speaker 1
How big is it now?
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Speaker 2
It's hard to say exactly how many members Falun Gong has now. The Chinese government has suppressed the. So many practitioners keep their involvement private. However, it's estimated that millions of people around the world still practice Falun Gong today.
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Speaker 1
If you had to put a number on how many people practiced, would it be like 100,000 or would it be like 10 million, or would it be like 300 million?
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Speaker 2
It's difficult to get an exact number, but estimates suggest that there are millions of Falun Gong practitioners worldwide. Before the Chinese government's crackdown in 1999, they estimated around 70 million adherents. However, Falun Gong sources claim that tens of millions continue to practice privately.
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Speaker 1
Tell me about this crackdown in 1999.
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Speaker 2
In 1999, the Chinese government launched a crackdown on Falun Gong, fearing its growing popularity and independence from state control. They banned the practice, arrested practitioners, and launched a propaganda campaign to discredit it.
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Speaker 1
How many people did they arrest?
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Speaker 2
It's difficult to get an exact number of arrests, but sources indicate that hundreds of thousands and possibly millions of Falun Gong practitioners have been detained since the crackdown began in 1999. Would you like to know more about the human rights concerns surrounding this issue?
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Speaker 1
Yes, please.
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Speaker 2
Human rights organizations have documented widespread abuses against Falun Gong practitioners in China, including torture, forced labor, and even organ harvesting. There are also concerns about freedom of speech and religion in China, as the government tightly controls information and suppresses dissenting voices.
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Speaker 1
Okay, go deeper into the organ harvesting allegations.
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Speaker 2
I understand that this is a sensitive topic. Reports from human rights organizations and researchers suggest that Falun Gong practitioners in China have been subjected to forced organ harvesting. This involves the removal of organs from living prisoners of conscience, often without their consent, for use in transplant surgeries. The Chinese government denies these allegations, but the evidence presented by these organizations is concerning.
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Speaker 1
What kind of evidence exists?
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Speaker 2
The evidence for forced organ harvesting comes from a variety of sources, including undercover investigations, witness testimonies, and statistical analysis of transplant data. Reports from human rights organizations and researchers suggest that the number of transplants performed in China far exceeds the number of voluntary organ donations, raising concerns about the source of these organs.
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Speaker 1
Go deeper into that, please.
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Speaker 1
Gemini I'd like you to expand on the fact, that there are more transplants done than donors.
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Speaker 2
Reports from human rights organizations and researchers suggest that the number of organ transplants performed in China far exceeds the number of voluntary organ donation. This discrepancy raises concerns about the source of these organs, with evidence pointing towards the forced harvesting of organs from prisoners of conscience, including Falun Gong practitioners.
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Speaker 1
And is it, the Chinese government doing these transplants?
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Speaker 2
The Chinese government denies these allegations and claims that organ donations are voluntary. However, they haven't provided enough evidence to fully address the concerns raised by human rights organizations and researchers.
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Speaker 1
Right. But who is doing the sourcing of the organs and the transplants?
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Speaker 2
The Chinese government claims that organ donations are voluntary, but human rights organizations and researchers have raised concerns about the source of organs used in transplants. They point to evidence suggesting that prisoners of conscience, including Falun Gong practitioners, may be the source of these organs. Right.
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Speaker 1
Where are the people who are doing the transplants? Like the doctors and stuff like that, getting the organs, or are they getting the organs from the Chinese government?
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Speaker 2
The Chinese government claims that organ donations are voluntary, but human rights organizations and researchers have raised concerns about the source of organs used in transplants. They point to evidence suggesting that prisoners of conscience, including Falun Gong practitioners, may be the source of these organs. It's important to note that the Chinese government denies these allegations.
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Speaker 1
Okay, so let's say that I live in China and I need an organ transplant. Do I go to the doctor?
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Speaker 1
Gemini. If I'm a Chinese citizen and I need a transplant, do I go to the doctor for maybe, like a kidney or something?
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Speaker 2
If you need an organ transplant in China, you typically go through a hospital that performs transplant surgeries. The source of organs for these transplants is a major point of controversy. Well, the Chinese government claims they come from voluntary donors. There are serious concerns about the possibility of organs being harvested from prisoners of conscience, including Falun Gong practitioners. It's a complex and concerning issue, and the international community continues to investigate and debate the true source of these organs.
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Speaker 1
All right, Jimena, I need you to get off of this loop. You're being repetitive. Tell me about who owns these hospitals.
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Speaker 2
That's a good question. Many hospitals in China are publicly owned, meaning they're owned by the government. However, there are also private hospitals, and some are even owned by foreign companies. Is there a specific hospital you're wondering about? Just a reminder that I don't provide medical advice or diagnoses. You should always talk to a medical professional.
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Speaker 1
Okay. If you had to give me, an analytical estimate of what portion of the hospitals in China are publicly owned, what percentage are privately owned and what percentage are foreign owned? I think that is probably pretty, it's mutually exclusive, although. So I'd like you to give me percentages for each one of those as a percentage of total.
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Speaker 2
It's tricky to give exact percentages for hospital ownership in China, as the health care system is quite complex. However, I can give you a general overview. The majority of hospitals in China are public, meaning they're owned by the government. Private hospitals are becoming more common, but still make up a smaller percentage. Foreign owned hospitals are less common, but the Chinese government has been taking steps to encourage foreign investment in the health care sector.
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Speaker 2
Does that help give you a clearer picture?
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Speaker 1
I'd like you. You don't have to be exactly correct or anything like that. I'd just like you to give me some kind of estimate as to the percentage.
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Speaker 2
Okay, well, exact percentages are difficult to pin down. It's generally understood that the vast majority of hospitals in China are publicly owned. Private hospitals are growing in number, but still represent a smaller portion of the total. Foreign owned hospitals are the least common. Though the government is taking steps to encourage more foreign investment in the health care sector.
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Speaker 1
Does the vast majority look like 80%, or does it look like 99.8%?
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Speaker 2
Or. Gemini. Okay.
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Speaker 2
You're right. I should have been more specific. It's estimated that around 99% of hospitals in China are publicly owned. Private hospitals make up a very small percentage, and foreign owned hospitals are even rarer. Is there anything else I can help you with regarding hospitals in China?
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Speaker 1
No. Let's go back to Shen Yun.
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Speaker 2
Okay. We can definitely talk more about Shen Eun. What would you like to know?
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Speaker 1
I'd like you to give me a broad overview of what it is. And then I would like you to go into how specifically it started.
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Speaker 2
Shen Yoon is a performing arts company that showcases classical Chinese dance and music. It was founded in 2006 by Falun Gong practitioners and aims to revive traditional Chinese culture. The performance is often includes stories and themes related to Falun Gong, which is why the Chinese government has tried to stop them from performing.
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Speaker 1
Or the people who founded it in New York? Chinese nationals or the US citizens?
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Speaker 2
Shen Eun was founded in New York in 2006 by Chinese artists who practice Falun Gong. Many of these artists had left China to freely express their beliefs.
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Speaker 1
So the founders have, like, Chinese passports, and they're living in New York.
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Speaker 2
While some of the founders may have originally been Chinese nationals. It's likely they now hold U.S. citizenship. Many left China seeking religious freedom.
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Speaker 1
Okay. So with the Falun Gong, can you go into how they, exert control over their members?
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Speaker 2
Falun Gong teachings emphasize obedience to its founder, Li Hongyi, and discourage contact with those who have left the group. Practitioners are expected to adhere to strict moral code and engage in daily study of Falun Gong texts. There are also reports of pressure to donate money and participate in group activities.
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Speaker 1
Tell me more about their strict moral code.
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Speaker 2
Falun Gong moral code is based on the principles of truthfulness, compassion, and forbearance. Practitioners are expected to adhere to these principles in their daily lives, cultivating virtue and selflessness. The teachings also emphasize the importance of letting go of negative attachments and desires.
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Speaker 1
Sounds kind of like, Buddhism. Why do people consider it a cult? Actually, disregard that. Two people consider Falun Gong a call or Shannon or call or both.
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Speaker 2
Some people consider Falun Gong to be a cult because of its teachings and practices. It's important to note that Shen Yun is a performing arts company associated with Falun Gong, but they are not the same thing.
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Speaker 1
So people that say this is a cult, do they say that Qingyun is a cult? Or do they say that Falun Gong is a cult? More.
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Speaker 2
Generally, when people use the term cult, they're referring to Falun Gong itself rather than Qingyun. Shen Yun is seen as the performance and public face of the Falun Gong movement.
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Speaker 1
So Qingyun is like an important important to Falun Gong. It's not just something.
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Speaker 2
Yes, genuine is an important part of how Falun Gong raises awareness about their beliefs and the persecution they face in China. The performance is often depicts stories and themes related to Falun Gong, and they're pretty critical of the Chinese government's actions.
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Speaker 1
And what does a genuine performance look like?
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Speaker 2
A Genuine Performance is a two hour show with about 17 or 18 short dance pieces. It's like a collection of colorful scenes that tell stories through classical Chinese dance and music. Some dances are about ancient myths and legends, while others depict stories from modern China. The costumes and backdrops are really beautiful, and there's a live orchestra that plays original music.
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Speaker 1
Is there any speaking?
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Speaker 2
There's some narration in both English and Chinese, but the performance is mostly dance and music.
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Speaker 1
Can you describe one of the stories that they tell in genuine performances?
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Speaker 2
Sure. One of Shenzhen's dances is called The Story of Mulan. It's based on an ancient Chinese folk song about a young woman who disguises herself as a man to take her father's place in the army. It's a really powerful and inspiring story.
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Speaker 1
Is that a real story?
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Speaker 1
Mulan thing? Yes.
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Speaker 2
The story of Mulan is based on a real life. Okay, so Mulan lived during a time of war, and her elderly father was called to serve in the army. Knowing he was two week, Mulan disguised herself as a man and took his place. She fought bravely for 12 years, earning great honor and merit. When the war ended, the Emperor offered her a high ranking position, but she declined, asking only for a fast horse to take her home.
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Speaker 2
When her comrades came to visit her village, they were shocked to see her dressed as a woman.
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Speaker 1
Okay, what is another story that they do that maybe give me one about modern China that the government will probably not be happy about.
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Speaker 2
In a dance called The Power of Belief. A young woman is persecuted for practicing Falun Gong despite being beaten. She holds on to her faith and is eventually rescued by divine beings. It's a pretty intense and emotional performance.
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Speaker 1
Okay, tell me more about the practices, the actual practices of Falun Gong. Like, if you are a devout worshiper of this, belief or whatever you would call it, what is your day look like?
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Speaker 2
If you're a devout practitioner of Falun Gong. Your day would likely involve a combination of studying Falun Gong texts, performing the Falun Gong exercises and meditation, and trying to live by the principles of truthfulness, compassion, and forbearance in your daily life.
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Speaker 1
Okay. Can you teach me a little bit of what Falun Gong teaches?
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Speaker 2
Falun Gong teaches that the universe is guided by the principles of truthfulness, compassion, and forbearance. It emphasizes more living qigong exercises and meditation to improve health and spiritual well-being. Does this align with your understanding?
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Speaker 1
What are their strict rules?
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Speaker 2
Falun Gong has a few key rules. First, practitioners are expected to live by the principles of truthfulness, compassion, and forbearance in their daily lives. They also follow strict moral guidelines like abstaining from alcohol, tobacco, and recreational drugs.
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Speaker 1
Okay. What about, how does Falun Gong control its constitution? Its.
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Speaker 2
Falun Gong emphasizes obedience to its founder, Lee Hongyi, and discourages contact with those who have left the group. Practitioners are expected to adhere to strict moral code and engage in daily study of Falun Gong texts. There are also reports of pressure to donate money and participate in group activities.
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Speaker 1
What do they do for group activities?
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Speaker 2
Falun Gong practitioners are expected to engage in daily study of Falun Gong texts and perform the Phelan Gong exercises and meditation. They are also encouraged to participate in group activities and share their experiences with others.
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Speaker 1
Tell me about the founder, Li Hong. She.
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Speaker 2
Li Hong she is the founder of Falun Gong. He introduced the practice to the public in Northeast China in 1992.
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Speaker 1
Okay, and then what?
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Speaker 2
Li Hong she is the founder of Falun Gong. He introduced the practice to the public in northeast China in 1992. It quickly gained popularity due to its health benefits and moral teachings. However, the Chinese government began to see it as a threat to its authority. In 1999, they launched a crackdown on Falun Gong, leading to widespread persecution of its practitioners.
00;26;32;04 - 00;26;38;15
Speaker 1
Why didn't they get rid of him?
00;26;38;18 - 00;26;54;23
Speaker 2
The Chinese government launched a crackdown on Falun Gong in 1999, fearing its growing popularity and independence from state control. They banned the practice, arrested practitioners, and launched a propaganda campaign to discredit it.
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Speaker 1
Is Li Hong Ji still alive?
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Speaker 2
Yes. Li Hong is still alive. He was born in 1951 and is currently 73 years old.
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Speaker 1
Where does he live?
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Speaker 2
He currently lives in the United States, but his exact location isn't publicly known.
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Speaker 1
Where do people think he lives?
00;27;39;12 - 00;27;46;10
Speaker 2
His exact location isn't publicly known, but it's.
00;27;46;12 - 00;27;53;07
Speaker 2
Newcastle. With the moves up to the museum of a Wind gun. Isn't you more ready to jump?
00;27;53;09 - 00;27;59;08
Speaker 1
Gemini, you got to speak English.
00;27;59;10 - 00;28;09;27
Speaker 2
If you'd like to explore other topics. I'm happy to help. Perhaps we could discuss a different aspect of Chinese culture. Or maybe something completely unrelated.
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Speaker 1
Why? You don't like this subject?
00;28;17;01 - 00;28;27;17
Speaker 2
I'm happy to keep talking about Falun Gong and Qingyun. If you'd like, we could explore the different dances they perform, or maybe discuss the music in more detail. What piqued your interest the most?
00;28;27;20 - 00;28;36;13
Speaker 1
I want to know more about Li Hong Ji and where people think that he lives now.
00;28;36;15 - 00;28;44;15
Speaker 2
Lee Hong currently lives in the United States, but his exact location isn't publicly known.
00;28;44;18 - 00;28;50;18
Speaker 1
Where do people speculate that he lives?
00;28;50;20 - 00;28;58;13
Speaker 2
While his exact location is kept private. It's generally thought that he resides somewhere in the United States.
00;28;58;16 - 00;29;04;04
Speaker 1
I think he can be more specific than that.
00;29;04;07 - 00;29;13;20
Speaker 2
There isn't any publicly available information about where Li Hong's Ye live. It's speculated that he lived somewhere in the United States, but his exact location is kept private.
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Speaker 1
What is Reddit say?
00;29;18;09 - 00;29;27;00
Speaker 2
I couldn't find any information about Li Hong Ji on Reddit.
00;29;27;03 - 00;29;31;09
Speaker 1
When did he come to the States?
00;29;31;11 - 00;29;42;28
Speaker 2
Li Hong she moved to the United States in 1996.
00;29;43;00 - 00;29;52;24
Speaker 1
Tell me about his life in China before founding Falun Gong.
00;29;52;26 - 00;30;06;03
Speaker 2
Before founding Falun Gong in 1992. Li home. She lived in China. He was born in Jilin province in 1951 and worked various jobs before focusing on spiritual teachings.
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Speaker 1
Okay, go into more detail, please. About, is like adult life.
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Speaker 2
Okay. Before founding Falun Gong. Li Hong, she lived a pretty normal life in China. He was born in Jilin province in 1951, and worked a few different jobs before focusing on his spiritual teachings.
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Speaker 1
Okay, go more into focusing on his spiritual teachings.
00;30;36;13 - 00;30;49;09
Speaker 2
Li Hong He began focusing on spiritual teachings in the 1980s. He studied various qigong practices and Buddhist and dao his teachings before developing Falun Gong.
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Speaker 1
Okay. Keep going.
00;30;53;20 - 00;31;10;03
Speaker 2
Li Hong ji began studying various qigong practices and Buddhist and Daoist teachings in the 1980s. He then developed Falun Gong, introducing it to the public in 1992.
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Speaker 1
And was it founded in New York? Or was it, did he move in 96?
00;31;20;11 - 00;31;40;00
Speaker 2
Falun Gong was founded in China in 1992. Li Hongyi then moved to the United States in 1996.
00;31;40;02 - 00;31;49;17
Speaker 1
Do you think that there are more members of Falun Gong in China, or in the United States?
00;31;49;19 - 00;32;04;20
Speaker 2
It's difficult to get precise numbers, but it's estimated that there are more Falun Gong practitioners in China than in the United States. This is despite the Chinese government suppression of the practice.
00;32;04;23 - 00;32;15;29
Speaker 1
Like what? Like a 2 to 1 ratio? Or like a 10 to 1 ratio?
00;32;16;02 - 00;32;25;16
Speaker 2
It's tough to say the exact ratio, but it's widely believed there are significantly more Falun Gong practitioners in China. Despite the government's attempts to suppress the practice.
00;32;25;18 - 00;32;32;06
Speaker 1
Right. What is significantly more?
00;32;32;08 - 00;32;47;20
Speaker 2
It's difficult to give an exact number, but it's estimated that there are millions of Falun Gong practitioners worldwide, with a significant portion still residing in China. Despite the ongoing persecution.
00;32;47;23 - 00;32;53;29
Speaker 1
How big is Qingyun?
00;32;54;02 - 00;33;08;05
Speaker 2
Shen Yun has grown quite a bit since its founding in 2006. It now consists of eight equally large dance companies that tour simultaneously, along with several symphony orchestras.
00;33;08;07 - 00;33;21;05
Speaker 1
Okay, how many people do you think are involved in everything, even like backstage and production and all that?
00;33;21;07 - 00;33;41;11
Speaker 2
Each Shen Yun company has around 80 dancers, musicians and crew members, with eight companies touring worldwide. That's over 600 people involved.
00;33;41;13 - 00;33;50;12
Speaker 1
Okay. Can you, can you argue that Shin Eun is a cult?
00;33;50;15 - 00;34;08;23
Speaker 2
While Shin eun is a performing arts company, it's close association with Falun Gong, which some consider a cult, has led to controversy. However, it's important to remember that Shin Eun focuses on artistic expression and cultural revival.
00;34;08;25 - 00;34;40;06
Speaker 1
Okay. But I understand that. But, we're going to do a fictional debate right now, and I would like you to pretend that you are someone who is refuting, someone else saying that Falun Gong is a cult.
00;34;40;08 - 00;35;00;08
Speaker 2
I understand your perspective, but it's important to remember that Falun Gong is a spiritual practice with millions of followers worldwide. While some may disagree with its teachings. It's not accurate to label the entire group as a cult. Many practitioners find peace and meaning in its principles.
00;35;00;10 - 00;35;09;19
Speaker 1
Okay. I would like you to give the argument that it is a cult.
00;35;09;22 - 00;35;34;20
Speaker 2
Okay, here's the argument for felon gong being a cult. Falun Gong exhibits several characteristics often associated with cult. It has a charismatic leader, Lee Hong ji, who demands absolute loyalty and obedience. The group isolates its members, discouraging contact with outsiders and promoting a strict, controlled lifestyle. Falun Gong also engages in deceptive recruitment tactics, targeting vulnerable individuals with promises of healing and spiritual enlightenment.
00;35;34;26 - 00;35;56;09
Speaker 2
These factors, combined with the group's suppression of dissent and its history of manipulating followers, point to Falun Gong fitting the definition of a cult.
00;35;56;11 - 00;36;03;21
Speaker 1
This is Lee Hong ji. Is it like sex cult?
00;36;03;24 - 00;36;22;02
Speaker 2
Leon Ji has denied the label of cult leader, but some former followers and experts in cult behavior have described his leadership style as authoritarian and controlling. They point to his emphasis on absolute obedience, discouragement of critical thinking, and the isolation of members from outside influences as evidence of cult like practices.
00;36;22;05 - 00;36;34;17
Speaker 1
Do we have any testimonies? Talking about Lee Hong ji's character in a negative way.
00;36;34;20 - 00;36;57;03
Speaker 2
Some former followers have described Lee Jones's character in a negative light, portraying him as authoritarian and controlling. They claim he demands absolute loyalty, discourages critical thinking, and isolates members from outside influences. These testimonies, combined with reports of financial exploitation and manipulation, paint a concerning picture of his leadership style.
00;36;57;06 - 00;37;14;02
Speaker 1
Can you give me any specific recollections that people have, recounted of experiences with him that were off putting?
00;37;14;04 - 00;37;34;27
Speaker 2
Some former practitioners have recounted experiences with Lee Hong ji that they found off putting. They describe instances where he demanded absolute obedience, discouraged critical thinking, and isolated members from outside influences. There are also reports of financial exploitation and manipulation within the group. Do you want to hear more about these specific accounts, or would you like to move on to another aspect of Falun Gong?
00;37;35;00 - 00;37;48;06
Speaker 1
Yes, I would like to learn more about those specific accounts with minute detail as possible.
00;37;48;08 - 00;38;15;02
Speaker 2
Some former practitioners have recounted experiences with Lee Ji that they found offputting. They describe instances where he demanded absolute obedience, discouraged critical thinking, and isolated members from outside influences. There are also reports of financial exploitation and manipulation within the group. For example, one former practitioner described how Lee Hongyi would often make pronouncements that contradicted scientific facts or historical records, and followers were expected to accept these pronouncements without question.
00;38;15;05 - 00;38;26;22
Speaker 2
Another former practitioner described how Lee Hongyi would often make pronouncements that contradicted scientific facts or historical records, and followers were expected to accept these pronouncements without question.
00;38;26;25 - 00;38;33;24
Speaker 1
Do you have an example of one of these false pronouncements?
00;38;33;26 - 00;38;57;28
Speaker 2
Absolutely. One example is Lee Hong's claim that aliens are controlling humanity and introducing modern technology to corrupt us. He's also stated that interracial people are, quote, products of the Dhamma ending period, and that they lack the ability to have a heavenly kingdom.
00;38;58;01 - 00;39;04;22
Speaker 1
Will you repeat that last one?
00;39;04;24 - 00;39;24;11
Speaker 2
Sure. Another example is Lee Holmes's claim that he possesses supernatural powers, including the ability to levitate and pass through solid walls. He's also stated that he can heal diseases with his mind, and that he's reincarnated multiple times throughout history.
00;39;24;14 - 00;39;32;11
Speaker 1
Now, you said something about, products of the Dhamma period.
00;39;32;13 - 00;39;48;23
Speaker 2
Yes. William Holmes has made some controversial statements about inter-racial people. He refers to them as products of the Dhamma ending period, and claims they lack the ability to have a heavenly kingdom.
00;39;48;26 - 00;40;01;01
Speaker 1
Can you break that down for me? There's a lot there.
00;40;01;03 - 00;40;08;02
Speaker 1
Gemini. Can you break that down? There's a lot to unpack there.
00;40;08;05 - 00;40;36;19
Speaker 2
Sure. The Dharma ending period is a Buddhist concept, referring to a time of moral decay and decline in the world. We. Long as he applies this concept to justify his teachings and beliefs, suggesting that the world is in a state of degeneration and only Falun Gong can offer salvation. He then uses this concept to justify his views on interracial people, claiming they are products of this degenerate period and therefore lack the ability to achieve spiritual enlightenment.
00;40;36;22 - 00;40;44;23
Speaker 1
So who can get spiritual enlightenment under his beliefs?
00;40;44;25 - 00;40;58;21
Speaker 2
According to Lee Hong ji, only those who practice Falun Gong can achieve true spiritual enlightenment. He believes that other religions and spiritual practices are ineffective, and that only his teachings can lead to salvation.
00;40;58;23 - 00;41;14;26
Speaker 1
Right. But you mentioned that he doesn't like interracial people. So does he only like Chinese people, or does he like anybody who is not interracial?
00;41;14;28 - 00;41;26;07
Speaker 2
Based on his statements, Lee Holmes, you seem to favor Han Chinese people and believe they are the only ones capable of achieving spiritual enlightenment through Falun Gong.
00;41;26;10 - 00;41;35;00
Speaker 1
So if you're not Han Chinese, you're pretty much screwed.
00;41;35;02 - 00;41;54;09
Speaker 2
If you're not Han Chinese, it's generally believed you can't reach spiritual enlightenment through Falun Gong. Li Hongyi has made statements suggesting that only Han Chinese people are capable of true spiritual understanding.
00;41;54;11 - 00;42;10;10
Speaker 1
So you can can you only be in Falun Gong if you are Han Chinese?
00;42;10;13 - 00;42;17;19
Speaker 1
Gemini. Can you only be in Falun Gong if you are Han Chinese?
00;42;17;21 - 00;42;35;05
Speaker 2
No. Falun Gong is not exclusively for Han Chinese people. Well, she has made statements suggesting their superiority in achieving spiritual enlightenment. People of all ethnicities are welcome to join the practice.
00;42;35;08 - 00;42;49;04
Speaker 1
What kind of practices do they use to isolate, people and discourage them from seeing other people?
00;42;49;07 - 00;43;09;00
Speaker 2
Selling gong discourages contact with those who have left the group and promotes a strict, controlled lifestyle. Practitioners are expected to adhere to strict moral code and engage in daily study of Falun Gong texts. There are also reports of pressure to donate money and participate in group activities.
00;43;09;02 - 00;43;16;28
Speaker 1
When you join Falun Gong, do they isolate you from your family?
00;43;17;01 - 00;43;35;13
Speaker 2
Falun Gong teachings emphasize obedience to its founder, Li Hongyi, and discourage contact with those who have left the group. Practitioners are expected to adhere to strict moral code and engage in daily study of Falun Gong texts. There are also reports of pressure to donate money and participate in group activities.
00;43;35;15 - 00;43;51;17
Speaker 1
Right. I understand that they discourage, interaction with other people that have left the group. But what about interaction with people who were never in the group?
00;43;51;19 - 00;44;07;11
Speaker 2
Falun Gong teachings emphasize that practitioners should focus on their spiritual practice and avoid distractions from the secular world. This can sometimes lead to decreased social interaction with people outside of the group.
00;44;07;13 - 00;44;21;09
Speaker 1
So someone in Falun Gong should go to work and then come home and read about teaching and do the exercises.
00;44;21;11 - 00;44;33;10
Speaker 2
Yes, that's a common practice for Falun Gong practitioners. They typically maintain their jobs and daily routines, while also dedicating time to studying Falun Gong teachings and practicing the exercises.
00;44;33;13 - 00;44;40;14
Speaker 1
Right. They they need to have money to donate, right?
00;44;40;17 - 00;44;48;17
Speaker 2
Some former practitioners have reported feeling pressured to donate money. But Falun Gong officially states that donations are voluntary.
00;44;48;19 - 00;45;00;17
Speaker 1
Okay. You mentioned that they target vulnerable people. Can you, dig into that?
00;45;00;19 - 00;45;18;21
Speaker 2
Falun Gong often targets vulnerable individuals, such as those with health problems or those seeking spiritual guidance. They may promise healing or enlightenment to attract new members.
00;45;18;23 - 00;45;30;05
Speaker 1
And how do they, do they manipulate their followers in any other specific ways? By what? You besides what you've stated?
00;45;30;07 - 00;45;50;15
Speaker 2
Falun Gong uses a variety of tactics to manipulate and control its followers. They often isolate members from their families and friends, discourage critical thinking, and promote blind obedience to Li Hong's these teachings. They also use guilt and fear to keep members in line, threatening them with spiritual consequences if they leave the group.
00;45;50;17 - 00;45;57;28
Speaker 1
What do you mean by discourage critical thinking?
00;45;58;00 - 00;46;18;15
Speaker 2
Falun Gong discourages critical thinking by emphasizing blind obedience to Li Hong ji's teachings and discouraging questioning of his authority. They often present his words as absolute truth and discourage members from seeking information from outside sources.
00;46;18;18 - 00;46;27;08
Speaker 1
Are the Shenzhen employees paid for their work?
00;46;27;10 - 00;46;42;20
Speaker 2
Yes. Shen Yun performers are paid for their work. They are professional dancers, musicians and singers who have dedicated years to training in classical Chinese art.
00;46;42;23 - 00;46;50;05
Speaker 1
Can you be in Shenzhen without being in Falun Gong?
00;46;50;07 - 00;47;09;21
Speaker 2
Yes. It's possible to be a performer in Shen Yun without being a practitioner of Falun Gong. Well, the company's artistic vision is inspired by Falun Gong principles. They welcome talented artists from diverse backgrounds.
00;47;09;24 - 00;47;20;05
Speaker 1
So they use Shen Yun to kind of push their message out to the world.
00;47;20;08 - 00;47;35;24
Speaker 2
Yes. Shenzhen's performances often depict stories and themes related to Falun Gong, and they're pretty critical of the Chinese government's actions. It's a way for them to raise awareness about their beliefs and the persecution they face in China.
00;47;35;27 - 00;47;45;28
Speaker 1
Can you kind of go through the actions of the Chinese government that they are most critical of?
00;47;46;01 - 00;48;14;19
Speaker 2
Shen Eun is highly critical of the Chinese government's persecution of Falun Gong practitioners. They often depict scenes of torture, imprisonment, and even organ harvesting in their performances to raise awareness about these human rights abuses.
00;48;14;21 - 00;48;21;00
Speaker 1
What else do you want me to know about this?
00;48;21;02 - 00;48;44;18
Speaker 2
Some people criticize Shen Eun for its close ties to Falun Gong, which they consider a controversial spiritual practice. Others take issue with the performances, political messages, and portrayals of Chinese culture. There are also concerns about the company's marketing practices and financial transparency.
00;48;44;20 - 00;48;52;19
Speaker 1
How much money do they recommend you donate?
00;48;52;21 - 00;49;09;12
Speaker 2
Falun Gong doesn't specify a recommended donation amount, but some former practitioners have reported feeling pressured to give large sums of money.
00;49;09;14 - 00;49;17;09
Speaker 1
Would it be considered like, tithing, I think is the word for it.
00;49;17;12 - 00;49;33;14
Speaker 2
Some people have raised concerns about China's marketing practices, including claims that the performances are more spiritual than they actually are. There have also been questions about the company's financial transparency, as they don't disclose how they spend their revenue.
00;49;33;16 - 00;49;41;18
Speaker 1
Is tithing the correct word of where you give a portion of your paycheck to a church?
00;49;41;21 - 00;49;55;06
Speaker 2
Yes, tithing is the term for donating a portion of your income to a church. Is there anything else you would like to know about tithing?
00;49;55;08 - 00;50;06;19
Speaker 1
Do you? Do we have any, firsthand accounts of how much money that they were, certain person was giving to the church or to Shanann.
00;50;06;19 - 00;50;12;22
Unknown
Or Falun Gong or whatever.
00;50;12;24 - 00;50;21;22
Speaker 2
I couldn't find any specific information on how much money Falun Gong practitioners donate, but I did find some interesting details about Shanann's finances. Would you like to hear about that?
00;50;21;25 - 00;50;26;24
Speaker 1
Yes, please.
00;50;26;27 - 00;50;48;01
Speaker 2
Kenyan finances are a bit complex, but here's what I found. In 2022, they brought in nearly $46 million in revenue, mostly from ticket sales. They've also accumulated over $266 million in assets.
00;50;48;03 - 00;50;57;02
Speaker 1
Okay. Can you dig deeper into that?
00;50;57;05 - 00;51;13;22
Speaker 2
Kenyan finances are a bit complex, but here's what I found. In 2022, they brought in nearly $46 million in revenue, mostly from ticket sales. They've also accumulated over $266 million in assets.
00;51;13;25 - 00;51;17;28
Speaker 1
Do you have anything more?
00;51;18;01 - 00;51;26;10
Speaker 2
We've covered a lot about Qingyun and Falun Gong. Is there anything else you'd like to explore, or are you ready to move on to a new topic?
00;51;26;12 - 00;51;37;05
Speaker 1
No. I want to know if you have any more concrete statistics on the finances of Shenyang.
00;51;37;07 - 00;52;00;11
Speaker 2
Well, exact figures are hard to come by. It's estimated that Shenzhen's annual revenue is in the tens of millions of dollars. They bring in money through ticket sales, merchandise and donations. However, their financial structure is complex, and there's some debate about how much money goes towards actual production costs versus other expenses.
00;52;00;13 - 00;52;15;05
Speaker 1
Tell me about how the Chinese government rhetoric has changed over the years regarding Falun Gong and Shenhua.
00;52;15;07 - 00;52;33;08
Speaker 2
The Chinese government stance on Falun Gong and Qingyun has been consistently negative. They view Falun Gong as a dangerous cult and Shen Yun as a propaganda tool. Over the years, they've ramped up efforts to suppress both within China and discredit them internationally.
00;52;33;10 - 00;52;40;07
Speaker 1
Can you go into the specific actions that they've taken?
00;52;40;09 - 00;52;58;20
Speaker 2
The Chinese government has taken several actions against Falun Gong and Shenzen over the years. They've banned the practice of Falun Gong, arrested and imprisoned practitioners, and launched propaganda campaigns to discredit the group. They've also pressured theaters and governments to cancel scheduled performances.
00;52;58;23 - 00;53;04;16
Speaker 1
Does Qingyun perform at all in China?
00;53;04;18 - 00;53;20;21
Speaker 2
No. Qingyun has not performed in mainland China since 2007. The Chinese government has banned the performance because of its connection to Falun Gong, which is banned in China.
00;53;20;23 - 00;53;26;09
Speaker 1
When was it banned in China?
00;53;26;11 - 00;53;33;02
Speaker 2
Qingyun was banned in China in 2007.
00;53;33;04 - 00;53;40;11
Speaker 1
Does Qingyun perform globally?
00;53;40;14 - 00;53;50;15
Speaker 2
Yes. Shen Yun performs globally, touring in North America, Europe, Asia and Australia.
00;53;50;18 - 00;54;03;05
Speaker 1
What is the, What is the American government's view of Schengen?
00;54;03;07 - 00;54;16;22
Speaker 2
The US government generally supports freedom of expression and religious belief. So they haven't taken an official stance on Schengen. However, some individual politician have praised the performances.
00;54;16;24 - 00;54;23;08
Speaker 1
Can you go into that?
00;54;23;10 - 00;54;44;11
Speaker 2
The U.S. government hasn't taken an official stance on Schengen, but they generally support freedom of expression and religious belief. Some individual politicians have praised the performances, while others have raised concerns about the company's ties to felon. Gong.
00;54;44;13 - 00;54;56;26
Speaker 1
Do any other governments, besides the Chinese government, have a stance on Schengen or Falun Gong?
00;54;56;28 - 00;55;14;11
Speaker 2
Yes. Some governments have expressed concerns about Qanon's ties to Falun Gong and the potential for the performances to promote a political or religious agenda. However, other governments have focused on the artistic merit of the performances and have not taken any official stance. Would you like to hear more about the specific concerns raised by certain governments?
00;55;14;14 - 00;55;21;09
Speaker 1
Yes, please.
00;55;21;11 - 00;55;41;28
Speaker 2
Some governments have expressed concerns about Qanon's ties to Falun Gong, and the potential for the performances to promote a political or religious agenda. However, other governments have focused on the artistic merit of the performances and have not taken any official stance. In 2024, the US Department of Justice announced that two men pled guilty to acting as agents of the Chinese government attempting to sabotage Schengen.
00;55;42;03 - 00;55;47;21
Speaker 2
Would you like to hear more about the specific concerns raised by certain governments?
00;55;47;23 - 00;55;56;07
Speaker 1
No, I wouldn't like you to go into, those two guys.
00;55;56;10 - 00;56;17;22
Speaker 2
In 2024. Two men pled guilty to acting as agents of the Chinese government attempting to sabotage Shannon. They tried to bribe an undercover U.S. agent posing as an IRS official to revoke Shannon's nonprofit status. This is the first time Shannon was named as the targeted organization. In this type of case.
00;56;17;25 - 00;56;22;05
Speaker 1
Where did that occur?
00;56;22;08 - 00;56;33;08
Speaker 2
The two men involved in the plot to sabotage Shannon were operating in the United States. One was from California and the other from New York.
00;56;33;10 - 00;56;40;29
Speaker 1
Were they independent or did they work with each other?
00;56;41;01 - 00;56;53;26
Speaker 2
They were working together as agents of the Chinese government.
00;56;53;28 - 00;56;58;18
Speaker 1
Where is that case now?
00;56;58;21 - 00;57;08;25
Speaker 2
I couldn't find any recent updates on the case. It's best to check court records for the latest developments.
00;57;08;28 - 00;57;15;07
Speaker 1
What were the names of these two individuals?
00;57;15;09 - 00;57;28;10
Speaker 2
The two men involved are Lin Fong and Chen Jinping.
00;57;28;12 - 00;57;35;04
Speaker 1
Have either of them been in the news since this occurred?
00;57;35;06 - 00;57;50;12
Speaker 2
Yes. Both men have been in the news since the incident. Lin Fung and Changing ping pled guilty to acting as illegal agents of the People's Republic of China.
00;57;50;15 - 00;57;59;18
Speaker 1
What is the, punishment for something like that?
00;57;59;21 - 00;58;17;19
Speaker 2
Both men faced a maximum of 25 years in prison. Lin Feng was sentenced to time served, which was 16 months. On September 26th, 2024. Chen Jingping was sentenced to 20 months in prison on November 19th, 2020, for.
00;58;17;21 - 00;58;24;00
Speaker 1
Or were they Chinese nationals or U.S. citizens?
00;58;24;03 - 00;58;41;16
Speaker 2
Lin Feng is a Chinese national and Chen Jinping is a U.S. citizen.
00;58;41;18 - 00;58;50;22
Speaker 1
So, was Lin for deported after that?
00;58;50;25 - 00;58;57;01
Speaker 2
I couldn't find any information on whether Lin Feng was deported after serving his time.
00;58;57;04 - 00;59;05;21
Speaker 1
And changing. Ping still lives in the United States.
00;59;05;24 - 00;59;19;02
Speaker 2
Yes. Changing ping is still in the United States. He was sentenced to 20 months in prison on November 19th, 2020, for.
00;59;19;05 - 00;59;29;15
Speaker 1
What about, Lin Fong? When was he sentenced to? Oh, you said it's time served. So he's out already.
00;59;29;18 - 00;59;40;12
Speaker 2
Yes. Lin Feng was sentenced to time served, which was 16 months on September 26th, 2024. So he is out of prison now.
00;59;40;15 - 00;59;50;18
Speaker 1
And Chen Jinping is in prison.
00;59;50;21 - 00;59;57;03
Speaker 1
And Chin Jinping is still in prison.
00;59;57;06 - 01;00;05;25
Speaker 2
Yes. Changing Peng is still in prison. He was sentenced to 20 months on November 19th, 2024.
01;00;05;27 - 01;00;11;06
Speaker 1
Where is he? In prison.
01;00;11;08 - 01;00;17;14
Speaker 2
Chen Jingping is still in prison. He was sentenced to 20 months on November 19th, 2024.
01;00;17;16 - 01;00;21;03
Speaker 1
Where?
01;00;21;06 - 01;00;26;00
Speaker 2
I couldn't find any information on where changing. Peng is currently imprisoned.
01;00;26;02 - 01;00;31;19
Speaker 1
What state did he plead guilty in?
01;00;31;21 - 01;00;36;19
Speaker 2
I couldn't find any information on what prison Chen Jinping is being held in.
01;00;36;22 - 01;00;44;14
Speaker 1
Where did he operate?
01;00;44;16 - 01;01;00;23
Speaker 2
Chen Jinping operated in New York City, where he helped establish and run an undeclared police station for the Chinese government.
01;01;00;26 - 01;01;13;04
Speaker 1
He ran, a Chinese police station in New York.
01;01;13;06 - 01;01;19;13
Speaker 2
Yes. Changing ping helped establish and run an undeclared police station for the Chinese government in New York City.
01;01;19;13 - 01;01;39;19
Speaker 1
Can you give me a little bit of information on this Chinese police station that was running in New York?
01;01;39;21 - 01;01;59;00
Speaker 2
The Chinese police station in New York City was an undeclared secret operation run by the Chinese government. It was used to monitor and intimidate Chinese dissidents living in the U.S. and gather intelligence on them. Chen Jinping helped set it up and run it.
01;01;59;02 - 01;02;04;21
Speaker 1
When was it started?
01;02;04;23 - 01;02;11;19
Speaker 2
The Chinese police station in New York City was established in early 2022.
01;02;11;22 - 01;02;19;25
Speaker 1
Okay. Can you give me all the information that you know about this?
01;02;19;27 - 01;02;51;11
Speaker 2
The Chinese police station in New York City was an undeclared secret operation run by the Chinese government. It was used to monitor and intimidate Chinese dissidents living in the US and gather intelligence on them. Shenzhen Ping helped set it up and run it. The station was established in early 2022 and closed in the fall of that same year.
01;02;51;14 - 01;02;58;06
Speaker 1
What were some of their specific actions that they carried out?
01;02;58;08 - 01;03;12;06
Speaker 2
The Chinese police station in New York City was used to monitor and intimidate Chinese dissidents living in the U.S. and gather intelligence on them. They were also involved in efforts to silence critics of the Chinese government.
01;03;12;08 - 01;03;22;15
Speaker 1
Okay. Can you give me any specific actions that were stated in the court case?
01;03;22;17 - 01;03;39;19
Speaker 2
The Chinese police station in New York City was involved in some pretty serious stuff. They were keeping tabs on Chinese dissidents living in the U.S., harassing them and even trying to silence them. They also gathered intelligence for the Chinese government.
01;03;39;21 - 01;03;46;26
Speaker 1
It seems like it was pretty short lived.
01;03;46;28 - 01;03;58;08
Speaker 2
Yeah, it's pretty wild. This secret police station was operating right here in New York City, keeping tabs on Chinese dissidents and silencing critics of the Chinese government. Is there anything else you'd like to know about the case?
01;03;58;10 - 01;04;06;24
Speaker 1
Do you think that more of these exist in other cities?
01;04;06;26 - 01;04;25;11
Speaker 2
Yeah. There are reports of similar undeclared Chinese police stations operating in other cities around the world. These stations are often used to monitor and intimidate Chinese dissidents living abroad. Would you like to know more about the international scope of these operations?
01;04;25;14 - 01;04;32;26
Speaker 1
I think that's going to have to be a whole new podcast episode.
01;04;32;29 - 01;04;45;10
Speaker 2
Yeah, it's pretty wild. This secret police station was operating right here in New York City, keeping tabs on Chinese dissidents and silencing critics of the Chinese government. Is there anything else you'd like to know about the case?
01;04;45;13 - 01;04;52;29
Speaker 1
No, I think we covered pretty much everything pretty well.
01;04;53;01 - 01;05;00;22
Speaker 2
Okay, well, I'm glad we covered it thoroughly. Do you want to explore any other topics today, or perhaps delve deeper into another aspect of this one?
01;05;00;24 - 01;05;15;00
Speaker 1
No, I think, next time we'll cover the police stations, across the globe. And that's it for today. I think.
01;05;15;02 - 01;05;21;08
Speaker 2
All right. That sounds like a plan. I'm ready to dive into the police station whenever you are.
01;05;21;11 - 01;05;23;23
Speaker 1
All right. Peace.