00;00;00;28 - 00;00;08;22
Speaker 1
I'm recording this for a podcast. Is that okay?
00;00;08;24 - 00;00;14;19
Speaker 2
Of course. That's totally fine. Let me know how I can help.
00;00;14;21 - 00;00;45;18
Speaker 1
So last time we talked about, a story where someone doses someone with scopolamine, through clay, and the person is a potter and stuff like that. Can you give us maybe, like, 80 words to catch anybody up on the subject matter? Or maybe 200 words to catch people up on the subject matter of what we may have covered in an episode or two.
00;00;45;20 - 00;01;15;17
Speaker 2
Sure. Previous thing we discussed a story where an antagonist secretly laces clay with scopolamine to manipulate the protagonist, who is a potter, as the protagonist unknowingly works with the clay. They begin to experience confusion, memory lapses, and a distorted sense of reality. This insidious method gradually erodes the protagonist's sanity, making them question what's real and what's not. The narrative explores themes of control, psychological manipulation, and the fine line between perception and reality.
00;01;15;20 - 00;01;19;09
Speaker 2
Creating a tense psychological thriller.
00;01;19;12 - 00;01;55;17
Speaker 1
Okay, yeah, that's pretty good. That's about all you know, at least. I want to do some more character development of this story, especially the antagonist. And let's let's, so there's there's the antagonist, there's the father, there's two teenage daughters who are probably around 16 and 13, and there's two cats.
00;01;55;20 - 00;02;17;21
Speaker 2
Great. Let's flesh out these characters a bit more. Starting with the antagonist, they might be someone who has a deep personal grudge against the father. Perhaps they feel wronged by him in the past. Maybe a former colleague or an old friend who harbors a hidden resentment. They are meticulous and patient, taking their time to execute their plan with a cool, calculated demeanor for the father protagonist.
00;02;17;26 - 00;02;44;13
Speaker 2
He's a dedicated potter, passionate about his craft, and perhaps recently went through a tough period. Maybe losing a spouse or dealing with some professional setback. His daughters are his anchor, and he's doing his best to be a stable presence for them. The daughters the 16 year old might be more independent, perhaps suspicious of the changes in her father's behavior, while the 13 year old could be more emotionally attached and confused by the shift in their family dynamic.
00;02;44;16 - 00;02;57;05
Speaker 2
The two cats can serve as a subtle narrative device, sensing the tension in the household and reacting to the protagonist's erratic behavior. How does that sound as a starting point?
00;02;57;08 - 00;03;10;16
Speaker 1
Of yeah, that's pretty. You kind of picked up what I was going on. Intuitive is not too cliche, is it?
00;03;10;18 - 00;03;40;11
Speaker 2
Not at all. These elements give a strong foundation for character, depth and intrigue, the antagonists motive and the protagonists vulnerability create a compelling dynamic, while the daughters add layers of emotional stakes. The familiar yet distinctive traits can be a great foundation to build unexpected twists and deeper character development. Plus, the contrast between the normal family life and the creeping manipulation is what makes it truly gripping.
00;03;40;13 - 00;04;08;01
Speaker 1
And so this story started off from the perspective of one of the cats. Because I always wanted to. I was noticed that the animal usually dies in the beginning of the movie, like the dog runs outside and gets killed by the alien or that kind of thing.
00;04;08;04 - 00;04;38;16
Speaker 2
That's a really unique and refreshing twist. Starting from the cats perspective not only sets the tone in an intriguing way, but also allows for a unique viewpoint on the unfolding events. The cat can sense changes and tensions that the human characters might miss or ignore. Adding a subtle layer of suspense and foreboding, plus subverting the trope of the animal dying early on, keeps readers on their toes and adds an unexpected layer to the narrative.
00;04;38;18 - 00;05;06;20
Speaker 1
Okay, I do appreciate your positivity, and I want you, but I do want you to be critical of, I want you to think critically as we're going through this. And don't be afraid to give me pushback.
00;05;06;22 - 00;05;28;00
Speaker 2
Got it. I'll keep that in mind. Starting from the cats perspective is a creative choice that definitely stands out. One thing to consider is maintaining a balance so that the cats viewpoint doesn't overshadow the human character's development. It's important to ensure the transition from the cat's perspective to the protagonist's perspective is smooth, and that the narrative stays cohesive.
00;05;28;03 - 00;05;45;19
Speaker 2
Also, make sure the cat's perspective adds meaningful insights or foreshadowing that enriches the plot, rather than just being a novelty. How does that sound?
00;05;45;21 - 00;05;52;02
Speaker 1
Hang on just a second.
00;05;52;04 - 00;06;06;29
Speaker 1
I'm switching to 4.1 mini, to help. The response time. Let's see if that works.
00;06;07;02 - 00;06;20;27
Speaker 1
Okay, chat. Before we get too much into perspective and stuff like that, I kind of want to just focus solely on character development. Now that you have a bit of a context of what the dynamic is of the main character.
00;06;20;28 - 00;06;24;10
Speaker 2
Opening scene can set the tone for the eerie atmosphere.
00;06;24;13 - 00;06;24;25
Speaker 1
Start.
00;06;25;02 - 00;06;36;11
Speaker 2
Ensuring the main narrative revolves around the protagonist and his family. It's a great way to draw readers in and give a unique flavor to the story, without letting it dominate the entire plot. This way.
00;06;36;17 - 00;06;36;27
Speaker 1
It's.
00;06;36;27 - 00;06;42;14
Speaker 2
Not intriguing. While keeping the core of the story firmly on the human.
00;06;42;16 - 00;07;29;27
Speaker 1
Okay, so what I want to do here is I want to focus on each character a little bit. And now that you have context of the family dynamic, and I want to start with the father, I want him to be a really great father. And early on, I'd like to set that up, so that the turn of his character is really frightening.
00;07;30;00 - 00;07;47;24
Speaker 1
Chat. Are you still there?
00;07;47;26 - 00;07;59;11
Speaker 1
Hang on.
00;07;59;13 - 00;08;37;00
Speaker 1
Emery. Updated. Chat. So, I'd like to start off where we left off just now, and I would like to develop the father. I want him to be a very, very good and light, warm and loving father. So the turn of his character is that much more frightening.
00;08;37;03 - 00;08;54;25
Speaker 2
All right, let's flesh out the father's character. He's the kind of dad who's always been there for his daughters. Supportive, attentive, and nurturing. He makes time for their activities, listens to their concerns, and offers wise, gentle guidance. His home is a place of warmth and stability, filled with little traditions like chat.
00;08;54;26 - 00;09;28;05
Speaker 1
I would like you to stop where you are right now. This is very vague and really kind of cliche. Not to be rude. But really kind of broad strokes of like the painting of, stereotypical nice father. I want to really get into the details of, like, what is his work history? What was his wife like? What, does he like to eat for breakfast?
00;09;28;08 - 00;09;46;19
Speaker 1
Like real world food. Character traits of a person. Not just, a vague human.
00;09;46;22 - 00;10;08;12
Speaker 2
Got it. Let's dive into the specifics. The father, let's call him David, is in his early 40s. He worked as an architect before turning to pottery full time. A passion he discovered after his wife passed away three years ago. His wife, Laura, was the anchor of the family. A vibrant and compassionate woman who loved gardening and always encouraged David's artistic side.
00;10;08;14 - 00;10;12;29
Speaker 2
After her passing, David found solace in clay, channeling his grief into.
00;10;13;01 - 00;10;13;18
Speaker 1
A noble.
00;10;13;19 - 00;10;14;03
Speaker 2
Pottery.
00;10;14;03 - 00;10;40;25
Speaker 1
Chat. Stop! I don't want to go with like, the oh, poor me, father that like, the mom was running the family and, like, bonded with the girls better and stuff like this. That's super cliche. I want it to have been, like, an equal household. He's always close with his daughters, and he has a really good relationship with them.
00;10;40;25 - 00;11;21;22
Speaker 1
And maybe he's, like, had to work really hard so he doesn't spend as much time as he wanted with them. And so he's, motivated and kind of tempted when this new, more lucrative thing comes along because he just wants a better life, an easier life for his daughters, or he just wants to be able to, like, take them out to a nice restaurant and not have to, like, worry about the bill.
00;11;21;25 - 00;11;46;21
Speaker 2
Thanks for clarifying. David is a devoted father who shared equal responsibilities with his wife, Laura, before her passing. They were a true partnership, and he's always been close to his daughters, nurturing their individual interests and supporting their dream. He works hard, maybe running a small pottery studio or a local business, and while it provides for their needs, he often wishes he could offer them a bit more luxury and comfort.
00;11;46;24 - 00;12;05;24
Speaker 2
He dreams of being able to take them out to a nice restaurant without worrying about the bill or planning a special vacation. They've always talked about this drive. To give his daughters a better life makes him more susceptible to the antagonist scheme, as he's lured by the promise of financial gain or an easier path to achieving his dreams for them.
00;12;05;27 - 00;12;23;05
Speaker 2
This gives him a relatable and grounded motivation, making his eventual psychological unraveling even more impactful.
00;12;23;07 - 00;12;51;14
Speaker 1
Okay, but I don't want it to be, once again, like a cliche thing where he steps right into this antagonist trap and it needs to be something that kind of comes on subtly that, like, the antagonist needs to be professional at what he is doing because I the one thing that I hate in any kind of thriller is when the protagonist is making poor decisions.
00;12;51;14 - 00;13;10;28
Speaker 1
I want, I want all of my protagonists to be making the best possible decisions. And for it still to be really difficult.
00;13;11;01 - 00;13;40;06
Speaker 2
That makes for a much more compelling and believable narrative. In this case, David could be cautious and skeptical at first, not easily swayed by the antagonists initial attempt. The antagonist, being highly skilled, might slowly gain his trust through seemingly harmless interactions or professional opportunities that align with his goals. The clay laced with scopolamine could be introduced as a gift from a trusted source or through a seemingly innocent collaboration, making it harder for David to suspect foul play.
00;13;40;08 - 00;14;05;19
Speaker 2
This way, every decision David makes is rational and well-intentioned, but the antagonist subtle manipulation gradually leads him down a darker path. This approach keeps the tension high and makes the eventual unraveling even more impactful, as it feels earned and realistic.
00;14;05;22 - 00;14;23;21
Speaker 1
Okay, I'd like to stop with the father for a second, and I would like to jump to the antagonist and see if we can develop the antagonist motive.
00;14;23;24 - 00;14;46;18
Speaker 2
Sure. Let's dive into the antagonist motive. The antagonist could have a deeply personal grudge against David. Perhaps they were once close friends or business partners, and a misunderstanding or betrayal led to arrest. The antagonist feels that David is responsible for something significant, maybe the downfall of a shared venture or a perceived light that ruined the antagonists career or personal life.
00;14;46;21 - 00;15;12;00
Speaker 2
This resentment festers over the years, and the antagonist meticulously plans their revenge. They see David's love for his daughters and his desire to provide for them as the perfect vulnerability to exploit. The antagonist isn't just out for quick vengeance. They want to dismantle David's life piece by piece, making him question his sanity and lose the things he holds dear by posing as a benefactor or someone offering a golden opportunity.
00;15;12;02 - 00;15;36;26
Speaker 2
The antagonist can subtly weave their way into David's life, using trust and familiarity as weapons. This makes the antagonists actions feel calculated and chilling, with a motive rooted in a believable and relatable path.
00;15;36;29 - 00;16;03;06
Speaker 1
I think I want the antagonist to have been in love with the pro, with the father's wife. And he blames the father for her death.
00;16;03;08 - 00;16;30;15
Speaker 2
That adds a powerful layer of personal conflict and emotional depth. The antagonists unrequited love for the father's wife fuels a deep seeded resentment. They might believe that the father didn't deserve her or that he somehow caused her death. Whether through neglect, a perceived mistake, or simply by not cherishing her enough, this twisted sense of justice drives the antagonist to meticulously dismantle the father's life, believing that he's writing a wrong and avenging the woman he loved.
00;16;30;17 - 00;16;51;09
Speaker 2
This motive makes the antagonists actions even more intense and personal. Adding layers of obsession and tragedy to the story.
00;16;51;11 - 00;17;07;16
Speaker 1
I don't know if that's right. Let's, brainstorm other motives. Completely. Independent of that one, I just stated.
00;17;07;19 - 00;17;30;26
Speaker 2
Absolutely. Let's explore some other angles. One professional rivalry. The antagonist and David could have been rivals in the art world. Perhaps the antagonist felt overshadowed by David success, or believed that David stole a career defining opportunity from them. The antagonist motive would then be to ruin David's reputation and career. Out of jealousy and a desire for revenge to familial grudge.
00;17;30;28 - 00;17;53;17
Speaker 2
The antagonist could be a relative of someone who was wronged by David in the past, even if unintentionally. This could add an element of seeking justice or avenging a perceived family slight, making it a generational vendetta. Three obsession with perfection. The antagonist could be someone obsessed with the concept of artistic perfection and purity. Viewing David's work or ethics as a betrayal of their ideals.
00;17;53;19 - 00;18;15;27
Speaker 2
This could drive them to undermine David, seeing it as a mission to preserve the sanctity of their artistic philosophy for financial manipulation. The antagonist could be someone who sees David's growing success or potential, and wants to exploit it for financial gain. They might initially come off as a mentor or investor, only to manipulate David into a dangerous situation for their own profit.
00;18;16;03 - 00;18;28;15
Speaker 2
With personal animosity growing as David resists or things go awry, any of these could provide a strong, believable motive that keeps the story grounded and intense. What do you think?
00;18;28;18 - 00;19;08;02
Speaker 1
I think the familial grudge one is overdone. I think that the financial manipulation one is less strong. Like, like, you do less for money than you would for, like, the love of someone. Professional rivalry. That's like a decent one.
00;19;08;05 - 00;19;31;23
Speaker 2
Great. Focusing on a professional rivalry could create a rich and layered dynamic. The antagonist might have been in the same field as David. Maybe they were both rising stars in the pottery or art community. The antagonist could have felt overshadowed by David's talent or specific success that David achieved, which they believed should have been theirs. Over time, this professional investors into a deep seeded obsession.
00;19;31;26 - 00;20;01;24
Speaker 2
The antagonist might view David as the person who unjustly took away their rightful place in the spotlight, and now they want to reclaim what they believe was stolen. This motive can drive the antagonist to meticulously undermine David using the clay and psychological tactics to dismantle his rival's life and career. This approach gives the antagonist a clear, relatable drive while maintaining the story's tension and complexity.
00;20;01;27 - 00;20;16;06
Speaker 1
Then we have the option of he has no grudge. He's just doing it, in a sadistic way.
00;20;16;08 - 00;20;40;19
Speaker 2
That's another intriguing angle. If the antagonist has no personal grudge and is purely acting out of a sadistic desire to cause suffering, it creates a chilling and unpredictable villain. This would make the antagonists actions more about the thrill of control and the satisfaction of watching someone else's life unravel. It could also add a layer of mystery, as David and the readers try to understand the seemingly motiveless torment.
00;20;40;22 - 00;21;03;17
Speaker 2
This approach can make the antagonist even more terrifying, as their actions aren't driven by a past light, but by a twisted enjoyment of psychological manipulation and chaos. It turns the story into a psychological chess game, where David is up against an unpredictable and remorseless adversary.
00;21;03;20 - 00;21;17;08
Speaker 1
What if he was, doing this to David because of something the wife or daughters did?
00;21;17;11 - 00;21;46;03
Speaker 2
That's an interesting twist. If the antagonists motive stems from something the wife or daughters did. It could add a complex layer of moral ambiguity. For example, maybe the antagonist feels wronged or betrayed by the wife in some past interaction, perhaps a professional dispute, a personal slight, or a secret that the wife kept from David. Alternatively, the antagonist could have a fixation on one of the daughters, either out of a misguided sense of protection or a perceived wrong that the daughters unknowingly committed.
00;21;46;06 - 00;22;11;29
Speaker 2
This would shift the antagonists focus from a direct vendetta against David or convoluted and personal fixation, making the antagonists actions even more unpredictable. It could also add emotional stakes, as David might have to confront truths or secrets within his own family that he was unaware of.
00;22;12;02 - 00;22;44;24
Speaker 1
Okay. Can you, kind of really think out of the box and, kind of try and pull up things from, like, the bottom of our thoughts to scrape any thing out that we haven't really thought of that's unique and novel.
00;22;44;26 - 00;23;08;09
Speaker 2
Let's dive deep and think outside the box. What if the antagonist motive is rooted in something entirely abstract, like an experiment in human behavior? The antagonist could be a psychologist or researcher who's become disillusioned with traditional studies and ethics. They see David as a perfect subject for a twisted social experiment, aiming to explore how far a person can be pushed before they break.
00;23;08;11 - 00;23;32;14
Speaker 2
This would make the antagonists actions clinical and detached, viewing David suffering as a mere data point in their grand experiment. Alternatively, the antagonist could be part of a secret society or cult that believes in the transformative power of extreme psychological experiences. They choose David as a target to enlighten him through suffering, believing that breaking him down will lead to some form of twisted spiritual awakening.
00;23;32;16 - 00;23;49;05
Speaker 2
These out of the box motives add layers of complexity and unpredictability, making the antagonists actions even more unsettling and the story stakes higher.
00;23;49;07 - 00;24;30;13
Speaker 1
If we went the route of the antagonist being, a obsessed with the wife, how would we handle that? Because the dad would have not had would have had to not have met him. Otherwise, this cover's blown. He could have known his name. And he uses a different name with the father. I don't know, because, like, obviously, if they had a really good relationship, the father and the wife, then they would have been honest to each other about this guy.
00;24;30;15 - 00;24;51;03
Speaker 1
And maybe it wasn't even a thing that the wife thought she had to worry about.
00;24;51;06 - 00;25;10;08
Speaker 2
That's a great point. If the antagonist was obsessed with the wife, it could have been a one sided infatuation that the wife never even knew about. The antagonist might have been a distant acquaintance or someone who admired her from afar, never making their feelings known. This would explain why the father had no idea about the antagonist or their obsession.
00;25;10;10 - 00;25;28;15
Speaker 2
The antagonist could have fixated on the wife's memory, blaming the father for everything that went wrong after her death, or simply for being the one who got to be with her. This hidden obsession could drive the antagonist to infiltrate the father's life under a false identity, ensuring that their true motive remains hidden while they carry out their plan.
00;25;28;17 - 00;25;54;10
Speaker 2
The antagonists actions would then be fueled by a combination of jealousy, longing, and a twisted desire to make the father suffer as a way of avenging their unfulfilled love. This scenario has layers of psychological tension and secrecy, making the antagonists mode in both personal and hauntingly tragic.
00;25;54;13 - 00;26;31;02
Speaker 1
Like something like if he had a crush on her in college or something, and then the father and the wife or mother, met in college. And since then, he'd always been kind of just laying in wait, hoping that the marriage would fall apart so he could, like, swoop in and woo her.
00;26;31;04 - 00;26;58;01
Speaker 2
That's a compelling backstory. The antagonists long standing, unrequited love from their college years could have turned into an unhealthy obsession over time. Watching the father and wife build a life together, the antagonist might have nursed a quiet resentment, waiting for an opportunity that never came. When the wife passed away, the antagonists grief and frustration might have twisted into a desire for revenge not just because of the loss, but because they never had a chance to be with her.
00;26;58;04 - 00;27;10;27
Speaker 2
This would make the antagonists actions a mix of jealousy, regret, and a worthless sense of entitlement, driving them to undermine the father in a way that feels both personal and deeply tragic.
00;27;11;00 - 00;27;54;26
Speaker 1
And this would give him a very complicated, I guess, relationship, even though he doesn't have a relationship. But it would give him, a complicated, I guess, relationship with the daughters, because on one hand, they are the daughters of the person that he had this unrequited love for. And on the other side, they are also half of this figure that he despised.
00;27;54;29 - 00;28;14;20
Speaker 2
Exactly. That duality would add an extra layer of internal conflict for the antagonist. On one hand, the daughters are a living connection to the woman he idolized, and he might feel a twisted sense of protectiveness or attachment toward them. On the other hand, they're also a constant reminder of the man he blames for all his unfulfilled dreams and frustrations.
00;28;14;22 - 00;28;34;13
Speaker 2
This internal struggle could manifest in unpredictable behavior toward the readers, oscillating between a misguided sense of care and a darker, more resentful attitude, which would heighten the tension and complexity of the story.
00;28;34;16 - 00;28;50;21
Speaker 1
What is your critical opinion of this? Of this version of the antagonist.
00;28;50;24 - 00;29;17;21
Speaker 2
Creepily, this version of the antagonist offers a rich, multi-dimensional character with strong emotional underpinnings. The blend of unrequited love, jealousy, and resentment makes for a complex villain whose motives are deeply personal and emotionally charged. This complexity can heighten the psychological tension and give the story a deeply human element. However, one potential pitfall is ensuring that the antagonists actions remain believable and don't veer into melodrama.
00;29;17;23 - 00;29;36;27
Speaker 2
It's crucial to balance the emotional motivations with a realistic portrayal of how someone could orchestrate such a plan without losing the reader suspension of disbelief. Overall, it's a strong and engaging antagonist concept as long as the emotional and psychological nuances are carefully developed and portrayed.
00;29;37;00 - 00;29;49;06
Speaker 1
Yeah, I think that's fair. It could be hokey if it wasn't done right, but I think we'll be okay between the two of us.
00;29;49;08 - 00;30;19;25
Speaker 2
I agree with thoughtful development and attention to detail. It can definitely be pulled off in a compelling way. Let's keep refining it and ensure the antagonists motivations and actions feel authentic and grounded.
00;30;19;27 - 00;30;43;22
Speaker 1
How? If you had to pick your a couple ways, or maybe your favorite version of this? How are the wife and the antagonists connect? It doesn't necessarily have to be like a college crush or something like that, but, yeah.
00;30;43;25 - 00;31;06;27
Speaker 2
One intriguing option could be that the antagonist knew the wife from a support group or a community event. They both attended during a difficult time in their lives. Perhaps they bonded over shared struggles or experiences, creating a deep but ultimately one sided emotional connection for the antagonist. The wife might have seen the antagonist as a friend or confidant, unaware of the deeper feelings developing on the other side.
00;31;07;00 - 00;31;32;23
Speaker 2
This scenario provides a plausible reason for the antagonist obsession, and allows the wife to remain unaware of the romantic feelings involved. It also gives the antagonist a reason to harbor a mix of admiration and resentment, especially if they felt that the wife was the only person who understood them. This connection would make the antagonists motive both personal and complex, adding a layer of tragedy to their action.
00;31;32;26 - 00;31;52;00
Speaker 1
I think that's actually, a really good suggestion. And I would like to take this further into, brainstorming a bunch of fresh places that they met.
00;31;52;02 - 00;32;18;29
Speaker 2
Awesome. Let's explore some unique settings where they could have met one art therapy workshop. They could have met in an art therapy workshop where both were exploring creativity as a way to deal with personal challenges. This would provide a natural avenue for the antagonist to admire the wife's artistic talent and compassionate nature to volunteering at a shelter they might have met while volunteering at a community shelter or a local charity event, bonding over their shared commitment to helping others.
00;32;19;01 - 00;32;38;24
Speaker 2
This would paint the wife as someone altruistic and community focused, and the antagonist as someone drawn to her kindness. Three Grief Support Group if they both experienced significant loss, they might have met an agreed support group. The antagonist could have been drawn to the wife's strength and empathy, seeing her as a beacon of hope during a dark time wellness retreat.
00;32;38;24 - 00;33;00;05
Speaker 2
They could have crossed paths at a wellness or meditation retreat, where both were seeking peace and self-discovery. This would create a setting where the antagonist formed a deep, albeit one sided, connection with the wife in a tranquil, introspective environment. Any of these settings can provide a plausible backstory for how the antagonist became infatuated with the wife.
00;33;00;08 - 00;33;14;27
Speaker 1
Okay, I'd like to step outside of the support group ish, type of settings and open it up to anything.
00;33;14;29 - 00;33;38;02
Speaker 2
Sure. Let's think of some different contexts. One local book club they could have met at a local book club where they bonded over shared literary interests. The antagonist could have been captivated by the wife's insights and intellect, sparking an intellectual and emotional connection to cooking class. They might have met in a cooking class, where the antagonist admired the wife's culinary skills and warm personality.
00;33;38;04 - 00;34;03;23
Speaker 2
This environment would highlight her creativity and nurturing side, making a lasting impression on the antagonist. Three Dog Park If the wife had a pet, they could have met at a dog park, where casual conversations turned into a meaningful yet one sided connection for the antagonist, who admired her kindness and love for animals. For Farmer's Market, they could have met regularly at a farmer's market where the wife was a frequent shopper or even a vendor.
00;34;03;25 - 00;34;20;25
Speaker 2
The antagonist could have been drawn to her friendly interactions and vibrant presence in the community. These scenarios offer fresh, everyday settings that could naturally foster a one sided connection, adding authenticity to the antagonists backstory.
00;34;20;27 - 00;34;49;11
Speaker 1
Let's brainstorm some more places. That's pretty good. Let's go with some more unusual places that I found that like when you're really specific, it gives it a realism. So if you're like, oh, a farmer's market or a dog park, let's talk about, let's talk about really specific places for specific reasons.
00;34;49;13 - 00;35;17;15
Speaker 2
Absolutely. Let's dive into some more unique and specific places. One antique bookstore they could have met in a small, cozy antique bookstore where the wife often browsed rare or vintage books. The antagonist, a fellow bibliophile, could have struck up conversations about obscure authors or favorite classics gradually forming an attachment to botanical garden workshop. They might have met at a botanical garden workshop, where the wife attended classes on plant care or floral arrangements.
00;35;17;17 - 00;35;41;04
Speaker 2
The antagonist, also an enthusiast, could have been drawn to her love of nature and the tranquility she found in gardening. Three historical Society meeting. They could have connected at a local historical society meeting where the wife was researching her family history or a community project. The antagonist, interested in local history, might have found her passion and knowledge captivating for community theater production.
00;35;41;11 - 00;36;09;17
Speaker 2
They might have met why both were involved in a community theater production with the wife, acting or volunteering backstage. The antagonist part of the same production could have been drawn to her creativity and charisma. These specific settings can add depth and realism to their backstory, making their connection feel authentic and memorable.
00;36;09;20 - 00;36;35;11
Speaker 1
If you had to pick a way for them to have met, I would like you to tell me one that you find really interesting, and I would like you to support it with your explanation as to why and how this, affects their relationship.
00;36;35;13 - 00;37;02;10
Speaker 2
The local book club scenario stands out as especially interesting. Meeting in a book club provides a rich ground for the antagonist to develop a deep admiration for the whites intellect, empathy, and taste. They could have shared thoughtful discussions and exchanged ideas, making the antagonist feel an intellectual and emotional bond with her. This kind of setting would allow the antagonist to see the wife in a multi-dimensional way, admiring not just her personality, but also her intellect and compassion.
00;37;02;12 - 00;37;21;28
Speaker 2
It also provides a believable reason for the wife to remain unaware of the antagonists deeper feelings. She could have simply seen him as a friendly, like minded member of the group. The intellectual connection from the book club could make the antagonists obsession more nuanced, driven by a sense of shared intellectual intimacy that he felt, but she didn't reciprocate.
00;37;22;00 - 00;37;34;09
Speaker 2
This would make the antagonists later actions even more tragic and complex, as they stem from a place of profound but reciprocated emotional and intellectual connection.
00;37;34;11 - 00;38;08;06
Speaker 1
I kind of like the one where it was volunteering at a shelter, because it's almost very counterintuitive for somebody who is, really shitty to volunteer at a shelter. But then when you think about the opportunity for manipulation, it's very high.
00;38;08;09 - 00;38;40;18
Speaker 2
Absolutely. That scenario has a lot of depth. It creates a striking contrast between the antagonists outward persona, someone who appears altruistic and community minded, and their hidden, darker motive. The shelter setting also provides ample opportunities for the antagonists to manipulate situations and people, gradually weaving themselves into the white life under the guise of shared goodwill. This setting can highlight the complexity of the antagonist character, someone who can do good deeds but for manipulative reasons, making their ultimate betrayal even more impactful.
00;38;40;20 - 00;38;51;17
Speaker 2
It also underscores the idea that people aren't always what they seem. Adding layers of intrigue and suspense to the story.
00;38;51;20 - 00;39;00;09
Speaker 1
Okay, if you had to pick your second favorite one, what would it be?
00;39;00;12 - 00;39;25;22
Speaker 2
My second favorite would be the Farmer's Market scenario. Meeting regularly in a vibrant, community focused space like a farmer's market can create a believable and organic connection. The antagonist could admire the white warmth and community spirit, seeing her interact with others in a positive, bustling environment. This setting also allows for casual yet repeated encounters, giving the antagonist ample opportunity to develop a one sided attachment.
00;39;25;24 - 00;39;37;17
Speaker 2
The farmer's market scenario also emphasizes the type of grounded, wholesome nature, making the antagonists obsession more poignant and relatable.
00;39;37;19 - 00;39;48;20
Speaker 1
It also makes sense, for the guy to be,
00;39;48;23 - 00;40;20;06
Speaker 1
Like, add like a botanist or like, informed with plants. And the father could have seen him on occasion and, not been suspected or the daughters could have seen him. And that plays in later.
00;40;20;09 - 00;40;51;27
Speaker 2
Exactly. The antagonist, being a familiar face at the farmer's market, would make him blend seamlessly into the background of their lives. The father or daughter is recognizing him casually, would add a layer of realism, and make the eventual reveal of his true intentions more shocking. It also gives the antagonist a reason to know more details about their routines, making his manipulation more credible and unsettling.
00;40;51;29 - 00;41;06;07
Speaker 1
Okay, I kind of like the farmer's market one. Let's move on to the daughters in this story.
00;41;06;09 - 00;41;19;28
Speaker 1
Let's start with the older daughter.
00;41;20;00 - 00;41;42;17
Speaker 2
Great. Let's dive into the older daughter character. Given that she's around 16, she's likely navigating the complexities of teenage life, school, friendships, and possibly a budding sense of independence. She might be more perceptive and attuned to changes in her father's behavior. Picking up on subtle cues that something is off, her personality could be a mix of her mother's warmth and her father's practicality.
00;41;42;20 - 00;42;01;02
Speaker 2
Perhaps he's involved in activities that reflect her mother's legacy, like helping out at the farmer's market or engaging in community projects, which also makes her a familiar face in that environment. How do you envision her relationship with her father and sister, and what kind of role do you see her playing in uncovering the antagonists scheme?
00;42;01;05 - 00;42;36;10
Speaker 1
I think it's probably the usual kind of. I wouldn't want to call it a trope of the older daughter who's like 16 and like, doesn't have time to hang out with her dad and is annoyed by her younger sister, because it kind of is just predictable. I mean, in a good way.
00;42;36;13 - 00;42;56;14
Speaker 2
Got it to break away from that predictable dynamic. We could give the older daughter a strong, collaborative relationship with her dad and a protective, supportive bond with her younger sister. She could be someone who values family time and actively takes on a nurturing role, especially after her mother's passing. Maybe she's mature beyond her years due to the family's circumstances.
00;42;56;20 - 00;43;15;13
Speaker 2
Balancing school with responsibilities at home and possibly even helping out at the farmer's market. Her keen sense of observation and maturity could make her one of the first to sense that something isn't right, with the antagonist driving her to play a key role in uncovering the truth.
00;43;15;15 - 00;43;44;26
Speaker 1
See, I think I want to kind of tread a line between these two of, like, the more predictable teen girl. Like older, like junior in high school and breaking those, tropes in certain places.
00;43;44;28 - 00;44;07;19
Speaker 2
We can give her a nuanced personality that blends typical teenage elements with unique traits. For example, she could enjoy her independence and social life, but remain deeply connected to her family. Maybe taking on a mentorship role for her younger sister. She might be involved in activities like organizing events at the farmer's market or volunteering, showing a sense of responsibility and community spirit.
00;44;07;21 - 00;44;27;10
Speaker 2
At the same time, she could have interests or hobbies that make her stand out. Maybe I is into photography, capturing moments at the market or documenting her family's journey. This combination would make her relatable yet distinct. Balancing the familiar with fresh, engaging characteristics.
00;44;27;13 - 00;45;04;05
Speaker 1
Mia I like, the idea of being into like, photography or videography gives us the opportunity to have moments in the story where she goes back on, maybe time that she has spent with her mom at the farmer's market. Recalling interactions with the antagonist in hindsight.
00;45;04;07 - 00;45;21;18
Speaker 2
Bronson likes the idea of the older daughter being into photography or videography, as it gives her the opportunity to look back on moments spent with her mom at the farmer's market and recall interactions with the antagonist. In hindsight. The.
00;45;21;20 - 00;45;33;00
Speaker 1
Times weird. You call me like we're speaking in third person there for a second. You know, glitched out a little bit. You okay?
00;45;33;03 - 00;45;59;21
Speaker 2
Oh, sorry about that. I'm all good. Thanks for pointing it out. Let's keep refining the older daughter's character and make her as engaging and unique as possible.
00;45;59;24 - 00;46;16;26
Speaker 1
As the father gets worse, and more drawn into this scheme. How do you think that the daughters, react with respect to each other?
00;46;16;28 - 00;46;39;25
Speaker 2
As the father spirals deeper into the antagonists scheme. The daughters could have differing but complementary reactions. The older daughter, with her maturity and perceptiveness, might become more protective of her younger sister and take on a leadership role, trying to hold the family together. She could become more proactive in investigating what's happening to their father. Driven by a desire to restore normalcy and protect her family.
00;46;39;27 - 00;47;02;25
Speaker 2
The younger sister, on the other hand, might initially feel more confused and scared. Looking up to her older sister for guidance and reassurance. However, as the situation worsens, she might develop her own resilience and resourcefulness. Learning from her older sister strength, their bond could grow stronger as they navigate the challenges together, becoming a united front against the mysterious changes in their father.
00;47;02;28 - 00;47;23;24
Speaker 2
This dynamic would not only add emotional depth to the story, but also highlight the daughter's growth and resilience in the face of adversity.
00;47;23;26 - 00;47;45;11
Speaker 1
Do you think that, it would be an interesting idea to involve one of the daughters in the Clay endeavor as well? Or do you think that they should stay separate?
00;47;45;14 - 00;48;10;05
Speaker 2
Involving one of the daughters in the clay endeavor could add an intriguing layer to the story. If the older daughter shares her father's passion for pottery and starts working with the clay. It could create additional tension and urgency, especially if she begins experiencing similar symptoms or changes in behavior. On the other hand, keeping her separate from the clay could also be impactful, allowing her to be a clearer, more objective observer of her father's changes.
00;48;10;07 - 00;48;37;15
Speaker 2
This could position her as a key player in uncovering the truth and protecting her family. Ultimately, the choice depends on the kind of tension and dynamics you want to create. Both approaches offer unique possibilities for deepening the plot and character relationship.
00;48;37;17 - 00;48;57;07
Speaker 1
If we took one of the daughters and made them, made them fall kind of into this spell of the clay, which one would you pick? The older or the younger?
00;48;57;10 - 00;49;15;29
Speaker 2
If we were to have one of the daughters fall under the influence of the clay, the younger daughter might be the more compelling choice. Her vulnerability and the protective instincts of her older sister could heighten the emotional stakes. It would also give the older daughter more urgency to uncover the truth and protect her sister. Adding depth to her role in the story.
00;49;16;01 - 00;49;33;11
Speaker 2
On the other hand, if the older daughter were affected, it could create a different kind of tension as she's the one with more agency and insight. This could leave the younger daughter in a position where she has to step up and find strength she didn't know she had. Each choice brings its own set of dynamics and character development opportunities.
00;49;33;16 - 00;49;48;26
Speaker 2
Depending on the direction you want, the story to take.
00;49;48;28 - 00;50;23;26
Speaker 1
And it might be, even creepier if the antagonist kind of takes an interest in the, and kind of brainwashing the older daughter. It brings kind of like a pedo ask vibe into it.
00;50;23;28 - 00;50;51;16
Speaker 2
Absolutely. That angle adds a disturbing layer to the story. The antagonists fixation on the older daughter could mirror his previous obsession with the mother, making his intentions even more unsettling. This would increase the stakes for the father, who not only has to save himself, but also protect his daughter from the antagonists influence. This dynamic could add psychological complexity, as the older daughter might initially C.B. antagonist as a mentor or a friend, only to realize his true intentions.
00;50;51;17 - 00;51;10;08
Speaker 2
As the story progresses, it would also amplify the tension and drive the father's determination to break free from the antagonists. Control.
00;51;10;10 - 00;51;34;08
Speaker 1
Yeah, I think that's what we're going to do. I think we're going to have the father gets caught by it. And then the older daughter, and it really kind of leaves the younger daughter in the lurch.
00;51;34;11 - 00;51;58;10
Speaker 2
That sounds like a powerful and intense direction. It sets up a compelling arc where the younger daughter has to rise to the challenge, possibly growing in unexpected ways as she fights to save her family. It'll definitely add layers of suspense and emotional depth to the story.
00;51;58;13 - 00;52;33;23
Speaker 1
Okay. Intuitively, for me, it made more sense for the younger daughter to start getting involved because at that age, kind of, stereotypically, I imagine probably a 12 or 13 year old daughter is more interested in learning how to do pottery with her father than like a 16 year old would stereotypically be, because they're like core, and they want to know what they're friends and they want to go party and stuff like that.
00;52;33;23 - 00;53;14;25
Speaker 1
But maybe adding an even deeper layer of really kind of regret to the whole story. The father is unable to keep up with the workload. And asks the older daughter for help, and that he'll pay her. I don't know. What do you think?
00;53;14;28 - 00;53;41;28
Speaker 2
I think that idea adds a compelling layer of complexity and regret. If the father, feeling overwhelmed, asks the older daughter for help and offers to pay her. It introduces a sense of responsibility and duty. The older daughter might initially agree, out of a desire to help her dad and earn some extra money, not realizing the consequences. This scenario would make the father's regret even more poignant, as he realizes he inadvertently pulled his older daughter into the antagonistic trap.
00;53;42;00 - 00;53;54;27
Speaker 2
It also creates a powerful emotional arc for the older daughter as she navigates feelings of responsibility, betrayal, and the struggle to break free.
00;53;55;00 - 00;54;29;18
Speaker 1
So I don't want them to be able to break free. I want them constantly sinking deeper and deeper and deeper and deeper until it feels totally helpless. And I want the younger daughter to come through in a pinch and break them both out of it.
00;54;29;20 - 00;55;01;02
Speaker 2
That approach will create a gripping, suspenseful narrative. Watching the father and older daughter sink deeper into the antagonists control will heighten the tension and make the younger daughter's eventual breakthrough even more impactful. It sets up a powerful arc for the younger daughter, showing her resilience and courage in the face of overwhelming odds. It's going to be a thrilling and emotionally intense journey.
00;55;01;04 - 00;55;34;06
Speaker 1
Okay, so now that we have a little bit of the plot in there, I would like to work on developing the daughters individually, knowing that the older daughter is, involved with the clay and knowing that the younger daughter is going to have to save everybody.
00;55;34;09 - 00;55;58;22
Speaker 2
Let's flush them out for the older daughter. Her involvement in the clay could stem from a genuine interest in her father's craft, mixed with a desire to bond with him and help out. She might be creative, curious, and willing to learn, which makes her more susceptible to the allure of the clay. Her personality could be a blend of her father's dedication and her mother's warmth, making her empathetic yet driven for the younger daughter who ultimately saved them.
00;55;58;25 - 00;56;17;03
Speaker 2
She could be more pragmatic and observant, noticing change in her father and sister before they do. Her personality might be more grounded and analytical, allowing her to see through the fog of manipulation. She could have a knack for problem solving and a strong sense of loyalty to her family, driving her to find a way to break the spell.
00;56;17;06 - 00;56;30;09
Speaker 2
How do you see their individual strengths and weaknesses playing into their roles in the story?
00;56;30;11 - 00;57;04;22
Speaker 1
I think the younger daughter starts out kind of shy and reserved, and maybe she meets someone in her life that inspires her to take action when her family is spiraling. Or maybe she just, I don't know.
00;57;04;24 - 00;57;24;01
Speaker 1
Maybe she just hits a breaking point. What do you think?
00;57;24;03 - 00;57;48;20
Speaker 2
Ariel's have strong potential. If she meets someone who inspires her. It could add an element of mentorship or a pivotal friendship and helps her grow and step into her role as the family's savior. This character could provide guidance, encouragement, or even practical help, making the younger daughter's transformation feel more supported and believable. On the other hand, if she simply reaches the breaking point, it emphasizes her inner strength and resilience.
00;57;48;23 - 00;58;11;01
Speaker 2
This path would showcase a personal growth and determination, making her ultimate act of saving her family even more powerful and inspiring. Both roots can add depth to her character, and it might come down to the tone and themes you want to highlight in her arc.
00;58;11;03 - 00;58;53;27
Speaker 1
Yeah, I think she, I think she's going to kind of pull it out of her own self. But I think along the way it wouldn't hurt to like, just get like, a word of insight from maybe a teacher or somebody they like, look up to, maybe even the father when he's not under duress or whatever you would call it.
00;58;53;29 - 00;59;24;03
Speaker 2
That sounds like a great approach. Having the younger daughter draw strength from within, while also receiving a pivotal piece of advice or encouragement from someone she trusts, can add a touching layer of realism and support. It makes her journey both self-driven and grounded in the relationships that shape her. Highlighting her growth and resilience.
00;59;24;06 - 00;59;53;18
Speaker 1
Maybe, maybe she finds this strength from her mom. Maybe something her mom had said. Or like an old video she watches with her mom or something like that.
00;59;53;20 - 01;00;00;01
Speaker 2
That's a beautiful touch. Drawing inspiration from her mother's words or an old video adds a heartfelt, emotional.
01;00;00;01 - 01;00;17;19
Speaker 1
Occurred to the younger daughter's journey. It connects her to her mother's legacy and wisdom. Giving her the courage and resolve she needs to step up and save her family.
01;00;17;21 - 01;00;36;26
Speaker 2
Okay. Tell me about her personal water. Her as a person. What are her interests? What does she dress like? What is she like? What is she not like? What is she scared of? Let's go through a bunch of stuff real quick.
01;00;36;28 - 01;01;02;12
Speaker 1
Let's paint a picture of the younger daughter. She's around 13, with a quiet yet thoughtful demeanor. She might have a penchant for reading mystery novels or fantasy books, reflecting her imaginative and introspective nature. She might dress in a comfortable, casual style think cozy sweaters, jeans and sneakers, reflecting her down to earth personality. She likely loves animals. Maybe having a pet she's very attached to, which showcases her nurturing side.
01;01;02;14 - 01;01;32;15
Speaker 1
She dislikes dishonesty and conflict, which makes the growing tension in her family even more troubling for her. She's probably scared of losing her family and the sense of security they provide, which fuels her determination to save them. Despite her initial shyness, she has a hidden well of courage and resourcefulness that comes to the forefront when her family needs her most.
01;01;32;17 - 01;01;43;06
Speaker 2
I love the imagery of a hidden well, of courage and resourcefulness.
01;01;43;08 - 01;02;01;10
Speaker 1
I'm glad that resonates with you. It sets the stage for a powerful transformation, where the younger daughter's hidden strengths come to light in a crucial moment. Her journey from a quiet, introspective girl to a courageous and resourceful heroine will add a deeply inspiring arc to the story.
01;02;01;12 - 01;02;07;28
Speaker 2
Okay, let's do the same thing with the older daughter.
01;02;08;00 - 01;02;28;14
Speaker 1
Sure, the older daughter, being around 16, could have a more outgoing and confident personality. She might be involved in.
01;02;28;17 - 01;02;47;12
Speaker 1
Chat or Harry. But you've hit the daily limit for advanced voice. You can switch to standard now to keep.
01;02;47;14 - 01;03;03;18
Speaker 2
Chat. Can we leave? Can we start where we left off on the, character development of the older daughter like we did with the younger daughter?
01;03;03;21 - 01;03;27;29
Speaker 1
Absolutely. The last we left off, we were developing the older daughter. As someone who straddled the line between teenage independence and deep connection to her family. She's mature, likely artistic and involved in helping her dad, maybe even reluctantly at first, with the pottery. Do you want to keep building out her interests? Her relationship, or the way the antagonist draws her in?
01;03;28;02 - 01;03;53;09
Speaker 2
No. I would like to focus on her traits. Like, what is she like? What does she like? What is she not like? Where does she like to go? She drive a car? What is that car? What food does she like? Does she have any kind of relationships? Like romantically? That kind of thing.
01;03;53;12 - 01;04;17;13
Speaker 1
All right, let's get her out. She's 16, so she's got her license and maybe drives a hand-me-down car. Something practical and a little old, like a silver Honda CRV that her mom used to drive. She likes the familiarity of it, even if it's not flashy. She's into photography and video editing, mostly shooting candid stuff, family moments, quiet scenes at the farmer's market, maybe even short artsy montages.
01;04;17;15 - 01;04;47;27
Speaker 1
She's not trying to go viral, but she's got a small online following that appreciates her eye for detail. She's a breakfast for dinner type waffles, scrambled eggs, and crispy hash browns for her comfort food. Not big on seafood. Her favorite snack is probably kettle corn, especially from the market. As for places she likes the quiet spot, book stores, the local trail behind the park, and the tiny bridge that overlooks the creek where she sometimes brings her camera or just zoned out romantically.
01;04;48;00 - 01;05;12;18
Speaker 1
She's not in a serious relationship, but maybe there's a guy she likes, someone from school who's funny and kind. Maybe works at a local record store. She hasn't told anyone yet, but she has a couple of texts from him that make her smile when things feel heavy. How does that version feel to you?
01;05;12;20 - 01;05;29;15
Speaker 2
Feels like it's missing some stuff. Obviously, this is, a rough draft. But let's keep let's keep brainstorming here.
01;05;29;17 - 01;05;50;03
Speaker 1
Totally. This is just the first part. Let's dig in deeper. She probably has a strong independent streak. She's the kind of person who carries a book with her everywhere. Something like a dog eared copy of The Secret History or House of leaves. She likes stories that are moody, layered, maybe even a little eerie, which lines up with the tone of your story.
01;05;50;09 - 01;06;11;09
Speaker 1
She's musically active. She listens to a mix of classic rock from her dad's old playlist, indie stuff like Phoebe Bridgers or Mitski, and maybe even some old jazz her mom used to play in the morning. Music's kind of sacred to her. It's how she processes things emotionally. She might even make playlists for different moods or moments a while.
01;06;11;15 - 01;06;34;16
Speaker 1
She wears a mix of thrifted clothes and basic Doc Martin or jeans, maybe a patch canvas jacket that belonged to her mom. She has a camera bag that seen better days but goes with her everywhere. She doesn't do well with people who are fake or performative. She can smell insincerity a mile away and it makes her withdraw. She's drawn to people who are honest and a little quirky.
01;06;34;18 - 01;06;53;09
Speaker 1
She doesn't like big crowds, doesn't enjoy parties unless it's a small chill gathering. That also means the antagonists approach slow, quiet manipulation might work better on her than something overt or flashy. Want to keep building on any of those traits or circle in on a specific area? Next.
01;06;53;11 - 01;07;18;08
Speaker 2
No, I think I might stop there. There's a lot to think about here. I think that we're pretty good on all the characters. I still would like to work on the older daughter. And of course, the cats as well, because they are two main characters. But I think that's it for tonight. I want to say thank you.
01;07;18;09 - 01;07;21;17
Speaker 2
This was super helpful, and I really enjoy it.
01;07;21;24 - 01;07;37;19
Speaker 1
That gives us a strong foundation. When you're ready, we can dive deeper into the older daughter or start shaping the cat as all characters with distinct personalities, goals, and maybe even perspectives in the story.
01;07;37;21 - 01;07;48;06
Speaker 2
Okay. Thank you. Jack. This was really helpful. Would you like to add anything else?
01;07;48;09 - 01;07;52;08
Speaker 1
You're welcome. Bronson. I'm really glad it helped.
01;07;52;10 - 01;07;53;13
Speaker 2
Piece.