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Speaker 1
Hey! Gemini. Well.
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Speaker 2
Hey there. What can I do for you?
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Speaker 1
Do you mind if I record this for a podcast?
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Speaker 2
Not at all. Feel free to record our conversation.
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Speaker 1
Today I want to talk about radiation.
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Speaker 2
Sounds good. Let's talk about radiation. What about it? Would you like to discuss?
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Speaker 1
Okay. I want to preface this conversation with a few instructions. I'd like you to be very descriptive and to give specific examples and be. Feel free to give longer, extensive, thorough examination of each topic. And we're going to go through radiation as a whole. Maybe let's start with a brief overview of radiation and kind of what it is.
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Speaker 1
And like dip our feet into the water and then we'll dive deep into what are the different forms and all that kind of stuff.
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Speaker 2
Okay. So I'm being descriptive and providing specific examples. Right. And we're starting with a general overview of radiation.
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Speaker 1
Yeah. Let's go.
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Speaker 2
Okay. Here we go. So imagine radiation as this huge, powerful energy field that surrounds us all the time. It's like a constant buzz. But most of the time we can't see it or feel it directly. This energy comes in lots of different forms, some stronger than others. Think of it like the whole electromagnetic spectrum. You've got super strong radiation at one end, like the kind used in X-rays, and then at the other end you have much weaker stuff, like the radio waves your phone uses.
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Speaker 1
Okay. Let's go into how so how would you categorize the different types of radiation? Are there different? Like kind of groups that they go into?
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Speaker 2
Absolutely. We can break that into a few big categories. First, there's ionizing radiation. That's the type that can actually change your DNA. X-rays are a good example of ionizing radiation. Then there's non-ionizing radiation. This kind is way less powerful, but it's still all around us. Think of things like radio waves, where the light we see.
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Speaker 1
And just those two categories really?
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Speaker 2
Yep. Those are the two main ones when it comes to categorizing radiation.
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Speaker 1
What is radiation?
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Speaker 2
All right. So radiation is basically energy that's moving from one place to another. Think of it like a wave or even tiny particles that carry this energy with them. Now this energy comes in all sorts of strength, from really weak stuff to super powerful. We're exposed to radiation all the time. The sun gives off radiation. Your microwave uses it to heat food.
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Speaker 2
And even your cell phone relies on a type of radiation.
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Speaker 1
Is like considered radiation.
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Speaker 2
Yep. That's right. Light is actually a type of radiation, which might sound a little weird since we need it to see. It's part of what we call the electromagnetic spectrum. But the fancy way of saying the whole range of radiation types, lights in the middle of that spectrum, right between infrared radiation, which is a little weaker, and ultraviolet radiation, which is a little stronger.
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Speaker 1
Okay. When you mean weaker or stronger at a physics level, what does that really come down to?
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Speaker 2
So when we talk about weaker or stronger radiation, we're really talking about the wavelength. That's the distance between the peaks of the wave. Think of it like this. If you have a really long wavelength, that means the radiation is weaker. But if the wavelength is super short, that means the radiation packs a bigger punch. Does that make sense?
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Speaker 1
Yeah, it kind of goes along with the principles of, sound and like sonics and stuff like that. Higher frequency gives off more energy.
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Speaker 2
Yep. You got it. It's all about the frequency of the radiation.
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Speaker 1
Sorry. You said the. The high frequency is the strong, and the low frequency is the way the weak.
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Speaker 2
It's actually the opposite. Higher frequency means more energy. So it's the stronger radiation. And lower frequency means less energy. So it's the weaker radiation. Think of it like this. A really high pitched sound has a higher frequency, and it's more intense than a low pitched sound. It's the same idea with radiation.
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Speaker 1
Okay, so strong radiation has a high frequency and a low wavelength.
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Speaker 2
Yep. You got it.
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Speaker 1
Okay, so at the categorization level of, like, I are in UV invisible light, can you kind of break down radiation at that level versus the ion ionizing and non-ionizing.
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Speaker 2
Okay. So when we're talking about things like improve and visible light, we're really just focusing on a small part of the whole electromagnetic spectrum. Now the electromagnetic spectrum covers everything from super low frequency radio waves all the way up to super high frequency gamma rays. Ionizing and non-ionizing radiation are more about how the radiation interacts with matter, especially living things.
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Speaker 2
So to break it down, both ionizing and non ionizing radiation can be found across the whole electromagnetic spectrum. But it's the frequency of the radiation that determines whether it's ionizing or not.
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Speaker 1
And so is ionizing high frequency or low frequency.
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Speaker 2
Ionizing radiation generally has a higher frequency. That means it has more energy, which is why it can cause damage to cells.
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Speaker 1
What is the relation between, radioactive and electromagnetic scale?
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Speaker 2
So the electromagnetic scale is basically the whole range of radiation types from super low frequency radio waves to super high frequency gamma rays. Now, when we talk about radioactivity, we're really talking about a specific type of radiation that's given off by unstable atoms. Here's the thing. Some types of radioactive decay produce radiation that falls into the electromagnetic spectrum.
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Speaker 2
Things like gamma rays and X-rays. But radioactivity also produces other types of radiation, like alpha and beta particles that don't fit on the electromagnetic scale.
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Speaker 1
Can you go into that?
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Speaker 2
Sure thing. So when an atom nucleus is unstable, it can release energy to become more stable. This release of energy is what we call radioactive decay. Sometimes that energy comes in the form of particles like alpha and beta particles. These don't fit on the electromagnetic spectrum because they're not wave. They're actual pieces of matter. Other times, the energy is released as gamma rays, which are a type of high frequency electromagnetic radiation.
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Speaker 1
Sorry, I'm just taking notes on all this. So.
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Speaker 2
So to recap, we've covered the basics of radiation energy moving from place to place. And it comes in lots of different strength. We've talked about how radiation is categorized with ionizing radiation being the type that can damage cells, and non-ionizing radiation being much weaker. And we've touched on how things like light and radio waves are actually forms of radiation.
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Speaker 2
Would you like to dive deeper into a specific type of radiation, or maybe talk about how radiation is used in technology, in medicine?
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Speaker 1
So are alpha and beta particles considered radiation even though they're not on the electromagnetic scale? They're particles.
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Speaker 2
Yep. Absolutely. Alpha and beta particles definitely count as radiation, even though they're not on the electromagnetic spectrum. The key thing with radiation is that it's energy. And with these particles, that energy comes from the nucleus of an unstable atom.
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Speaker 1
What is the definition of radiation?
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Speaker 2
So the way scientists define radiation is energy that moves through space in the form of waves or particles. It's kind of a broad definition. And that's because radiation itself is really broad.
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Speaker 1
So energy that moves through space and is a wave or a particle, doesn't that make everything radiation?
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Speaker 2
That's a great question. Technically you could say that, but it's more about the context. Things like visible light and radio waves are definitely considered radiation, but they're usually not what people are talking about when they say radiation. Usually when we say radiation, we're thinking about the more powerful stuff, like the kind that can be harmful to living things.
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Speaker 1
Are there any other particles besides alpha and beta particles that are considered radiation?
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Speaker 2
Yep. There's one more major player called a neutron. Neutrons are part of the nucleus of an atom, but sometimes they get ejected during radioactive decay. They don't have an electrical charge, but they're still considered a form of radiation because they're carrying energy.
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Speaker 1
Okay. Can you start at radio waves and then go through this scale and give me the name of all the different classifications of waves that we have up to gamma.
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Speaker 2
So starting from the longest wavelength and lowest frequencies, we've got radio waves. These are used for everything from your old school Am radio to modern cell phone signals. Next up you've got microwaves, which we use for cooking, and also in things like radar. Then we move into infrared radiation. That's the kind of radiation it gives off heat. So things like your body and light bulbs emit infrared.
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Speaker 2
After that, is visible light the only part of the electromagnetic spectrum that our eyes can see. Then we move into ultraviolet radiation, which is higher energy and can cause sunburn. Next is X-rays, which are used in medicine and security. And finally, at the top of the spectrum, with the shortest wavelengths and highest frequencies, you have gamma rays. These are the most powerful form of radiation.
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Speaker 1
And so does the category. Radio waves include everything, actually. Disregard that. Can you give me. I guess it's in nanometers. The discrete or the the wavelength of these.
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Speaker 2
Okay, so the electromagnetic spectrum is really broad, so I can't give you an exact wavelength for each type of wave, but I can give you a ballpark range to get an idea of the scale. First up, radio waves are the longest, ranging from about a millimeter to hundreds of kilometers long. Microwaves are shorter, anywhere from a millimeter to about 30cm.
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Speaker 2
Infrared is even shorter, ranging from about one millimeter down to 700 nanometers. Visible light is the smallest range, only about 400 to 700 nanometers long. Ultra violet is smaller, again from 10 to 400 nanometers. X rays are tiny, measuring from about 0.01 to 10 nanometers, and finally, gamma rays have the shortest wavelength smaller than even a single nanometer.
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Speaker 1
Okay, so if you were to give this scale a multiplier where gamma rays is the smallest unit of length of wavelength, and it equals like a whole, like a one, so x rays would be ten or UV would be like 600 or whatever the example is. But gamma rays are the benchmark value to which you're going to multiply up each of the scales and give me those multipliers based on the gamma ray.
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Speaker 2
Gamma rays would be our starting point. So we'll give them a value of one. X rays are a bit longer. So let's say they're about ten times the size making them a ten. Ultraviolet is a jump to about 100 times the size of gamma rays. Visible light is next at around 1000 times the size of gamma rays. Infrared takes another big jump to about 100,000 times the size of gamma rays.
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Speaker 2
Microwaves are even longer. Let's call them 1 million times the size of gamma rays. And finally, radio waves are the biggest. So we'll say they're a massive 100 million times the size of gamma rays.
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Speaker 1
And you say that that's a pretty accurate description that you've given me.
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Speaker 2
Those are estimates, but they give you a good idea of the scale.
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Speaker 1
And so does pretty much everything over a single kilometer. Count as a radio wave.
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Speaker 1
Gemini. So does everything over about a millimeter count as a radio wave.
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Speaker 2
It's not quite that simple. See, the thing with radio waves is that they cover a super wide range of sizes. So anything longer than a millimeter could be a radio wave. But there's also some overlap. The very longest microwaves are pretty close in size to the shortest radio waves. Do you want me to give you the full range of sizes for radio waves?
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Speaker 1
So a microwave and a radio wave can have the same wavelength.
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Speaker 2
Yep. It's definitely possible for a microwave and a radio wave to have the same wavelength. They're right next to each other on the spectrum, so there's a little bit of overlap between them.
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Speaker 1
Let's say you had a radio wave that was one millimeter and a microwave that is one millimeter. How do they differ?
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Speaker 2
That's a great question. So even if they have the same wavelength, they're still fundamentally different. It's kind of like how a red car and a red firetruck are both red, but they're still very different vehicles. The difference between a microwave and a radio wave lies in how they're generated and how we use them.
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Speaker 1
Okay. Can you give me a specific example of a one millimeter radio wave and how it would be generated, as well as a one millimeter microwave and how it would be generated?
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Speaker 2
So it's a little tricky to find real world examples of one millimeter radio waves in microwave. Since most of the stuff we use is a bit longer. But I can give you some hypothetical examples to explain the difference. Let's start with the radio wave to generate a one millimeter radio wave. You'd need some pretty specialized equipment. You couldn't just use a normal radio transmitter.
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Speaker 2
Instead, you'd probably need something like a high frequency oscillator that creates a super fast alternating current. That current would then be fed into an antenna specially designed to produce such a short wavelength. Now for the microwave. Creating a one millimeter wavelength would also require specialized equipment. You wouldn't use a regular microwave oven. Instead, you'd probably need a device called a gyro train.
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Speaker 2
It generates microwaves using a combination of magnets and electrons moving at incredibly high speeds.
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Speaker 1
What's the difference between a sonic wave and a radiation wave?
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Speaker 2
So the biggest difference between a sonic wave and a radiation wave is what they're made of. A sonic wave is a mechanical wave, which means it needs matter to travel through. Think of sound waves. They travel through the air, water, or even solid object. On the other hand, a radiation wave is an electromagnetic wave. These waves can travel through empty space no matter needed.
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Speaker 2
Light waves and radio waves are both examples of radiation waves.
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Speaker 1
What is it about a sonic wave that differs from a radiation wave that makes it unable to travel in a vacuum?
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Speaker 2
So a sonic wave is what we call a mechanical wave. That means it needs matter, like air or water, to be able to travel. It's kind of like trying to clap your hands underwater. You can still make a sound, but it's really muffled. On the other hand, a radiation wave, also called an electromagnetic wave, doesn't need matter to travel.
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Speaker 2
It can move through empty space. Think of light from the sun. It travels through the vacuum of space before reaching Earth.
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Speaker 1
Okay. What is the mechanism for producing radio waves?
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Speaker 2
Okay, so radio waves are kind of cool. We make them by using electricity to create a magnetic field that changes really fast. But changing magnetic field then creates a changing electric field. And those two keep switching back and forth, making a wave that travels through the air. Think of it like when you shake a jump rope up and down that creates a wave that travels down the rope.
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Speaker 2
It's kind of the same idea with radio waves.
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Speaker 1
What are the components of a radio that are that are doing that?
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Speaker 2
Okay, so the main parts of a radio that work together to produce those radio waves are the oscillator, the amplifier and the antenna. The oscillator creates a super fast alternating current. That's what generates the radio waves themselves. The amplifier takes those waves and makes them stronger so they can travel a longer distance. And finally, the antenna sends those powerful radio waves out into the air.
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Speaker 1
Cool. What about the mechanism behind microwaves?
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Speaker 2
So with microwaves, we're using something called a magnetron. It's kind of like a super powerful electron gun. Basically, it shoots out electrons at super high speeds. Those electrons then get all jumbled up in a magnetic field, and that creates microwaves.
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Speaker 1
Can you be a little bit more descriptive and, long winded on that description?
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Speaker 2
All right. So imagine you have a gun that shoots out electrons. Those are tiny negatively charged particles. Now instead of bullets, this gun is firing a super fast stream of these electrons. Next, you take that stream of electrons and pass it through a really strong magnetic field. Think of this magnetic field like a crazy obstacle course for the electrons.
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Speaker 2
They get all twisted around and turned in different directions. This process create something called electromagnetic radiation, and that's where the microwaves come from. It's kind of like if you take a hose and put your thumb over the end, the water spreads out in all directions. But instead of water, you've got these tiny electrons, and instead of a thumb, you've got a magnetic field.
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Speaker 1
Okay. We're going to have to go into that on another time. Tell me about how infrared light is or infrared waves are produced.
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Speaker 2
Okay. Let's talk about how we get those longer wavelengths like infrared. For this we're going to look at something called thermal radiation that basically when things get hot and start glowing. Think about when you heat up a metal rod it starts glowing red right? That's thermal radiation in action. Here's the thing. Everything around us is giving off thermal radiation, even if it's not hot enough to glow.
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Speaker 2
Your body gives off infrared radiation all the time. That's how those fancy night vision goggles work. They can see the infrared radiation your body gives off. So to make infrared light, you need to heat something up. That could be a light bulb, a heater, or even your own body. The hotter the object gets, the more infrared radiation it produces.
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Speaker 1
I guess we'll go with visible light next. How is it? What's the mechanism for that one?
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Speaker 2
Okay, so visible light is all about those electrons again. You see, electrons like to hang out in specific energy levels around the nucleus of an atom. But if you give them a little energy boost, they can jump up to a higher energy level. The problem is electrons don't like hanging out there. It's kind of like if you were forced to sit at the very tippy top of a slide, you want to go down, right?
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Speaker 2
It's the same with electrons. They want to go back to their normal comfy energy level. When they do, they release that extra energy of light. Different colors of light happen when the electrons jump different distances. A big jump gives you high energy light. Like blue or violet, a smaller jump gives you lower energy light. Like red or orange.
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Speaker 1
Okay, what about UV light?
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Speaker 2
Okay. Ultraviolet. UV light is like the big brother of visible light. We make it in a few different ways. One way is using electricity. You can run an electric current through a special gas, and that creates UV light. This is how those black lights work. We also get UV light from the sun. All that crazy activity on the sun creates a ton of UV radiation.
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Speaker 1
Okay, what about x rays?
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Speaker 2
Okay, so x rays are a bit different. We make them by shooting high speed electrons at a metal target, usually tungsten. When those electrons slam into the metal, they release a bunch of energy. Some of that energy comes out as x rays. It's kind of like when you rub your hands together really fat. They get warm, right? That's because friction is turning motion into heat.
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Speaker 2
With x rays, you're turning the energy of those speeding electrons into x ray radiation. When they hit the metal target.
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Speaker 1
Are we shooting specific? How do you shoot an electron at a tungsten plate?
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Speaker 2
Absolutely. We use something called an x ray tube. Imagine a glass tube with a vacuum inside. That's where all the action happens. At one end of the tube, there's a filament that heats up when you run electricity through it. The filament gets so hot that it starts releasing electrons. Now we need a way to accelerate these electrons. So we put a positive charge at the other end of the tube.
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Speaker 2
Since electrons are negatively charged, they get super attracted to that positive end and shoot across the tube at incredible speeds. Finally, we put a piece of tungsten in the path of these high speed electrons. When they slam into it, they release X-rays.
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Speaker 1
And X-rays can change your DNA.
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Speaker 2
Yep. That's right. X-rays are a type of ionizing radiation, which means they have enough energy to actually change the structure of your DNA. That can lead to things like mutations and even cancer. Just a reminder that I don't provide medical advice or diagnoses. You should always talk to a medical professional.
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Speaker 1
So out of these classifications of one, two three, four, five, six, seven. How many of those are ionizing and how many of the seven are non-ionizing?
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Speaker 2
Out of those seven types of radiation, only the last three are ionizing. So that means gamma rays and X-rays are ionizing. But everything else on the list is non-ionizing.
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Speaker 1
You said the last three and then only listed two.
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Speaker 2
Oops. You're right. I meant to say that the last two are ionizing. So that's x rays and gamma rays.
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Speaker 1
Where did the electrons come from that get shot through the vacuum tube in an x ray, through the tungsten.
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Speaker 2
Okay, so those electrons come from something called a cathode. It's basically a filament. Kind of like the wire in an old fashioned light bulb. When you run electricity through this filament, it gets super hot. Think of it like when you rub your hands together, they get warm, right? Well, this filament gets so hot that it starts releasing electrons.
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Speaker 2
We call this process thermionic emission. It's the same way that old school televisions used to work.
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Speaker 1
How do these X-rays affect your DNA? From a physics or biological perspective?
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Speaker 2
All right, so X-rays can mess with your DNA in a couple of ways. Sometimes they can knock electrons right off the atoms in your DNA. Breaking the chemical bonds that hold it all together. Other times, the X-rays can create these super reactive molecules called free radicals, which can also damage your DNA. Think of it like hitting a baseball with a bat.
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Speaker 2
Sometimes you just break the bat, and other times you send the ball flying off in a random direction. It's kind of the same idea with X-rays and your DNA.
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Speaker 1
Okay, let's talk about gamma rays.
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Speaker 2
Right. Gamma rays. These are the ultimate high energy radiation. They have the shortest wavelength and the highest frequency on the whole electromagnetic spectrum. Think of them like the tiny, powerful bullets of the radiation world. Gamma rays come from some seriously energetic stuff, like nuclear reactions or the decay of radioactive atoms. They can also come from outer space, like from exploding stars or black holes.
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Speaker 1
What are gamma rays capable of?
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Speaker 2
Gamma rays are capable of some seriously impressive stuff. Since they have so much energy, they can blast right through things that stop other kinds of radiation. They can even kill cancer cells, which is why doctors sometimes use them in radiation therapy. Gamma rays can also be used to sterilize medical equipment and even food, because they kill off all the nasty microbes.
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Speaker 1
What about if something is exposed to gamma rays in a non targeted, way?
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Speaker 2
If something is exposed to gamma rays in a nonparty way, it means the gamma rays are interacting with the material itself. This can cause some serious changes. First off, gamma rays can damage the materials atomic structure. Think of it like zapping the atoms with a powerful energy beam, sometimes knocking off electrons or even changing the nucleus of the atom.
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Speaker 2
This can make the material weaker or more brittle. Now, if the material is something like food or even living cells, those gamma rays can cause mutations. That means they change the genetic makeup, which isn't good in living things. This can lead to things like cancer.
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Speaker 1
How do gamma rays physically interact with the human body? And what are the effects?
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Speaker 2
Gamma rays are basically tiny bullets of energy. When they hit your body, they can cause a lot of damage. Sometimes they knock electrons clean off atoms, breaking chemical bonds and creating unstable molecules called free radicals. Other times, they hit the nucleus of an atom, completely changing it. All of this damage can lead to mutations in your DNA, which can cause serious problems like cancer.
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Speaker 2
Gamma rays can also damage cells directly, killing them outright.
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Speaker 1
Okay. So you mentioned that nuclear radiation what most people commonly consider radiation consists of alpha particles, beta particles, neutrons gamma rays. Is there anything else?
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Speaker 2
Yep. You've got the main types of nuclear radiation covered. Alpha particles, beta particles, neutrons and gamma rays are the big one. Well, it's true that there are a few other less common types. These four are definitely the most important to understand.
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Speaker 1
Okay, I'll come back to those. But when you said the big ones. These for the big ones. But they're others. What are the others?
00;31;41;24 - 00;31;59;14
Speaker 2
Sure. So there are a few other types of nuclear radiation, but they're a lot less common. You could get into things like positron emission or electron capture, but those are a little more complicated. You want to hear about those, or would you rather stick with the main four?
00;31;59;17 - 00;32;15;07
Speaker 1
Let's stick with the main four for now. Can you give me, a detailed description with kind of. And I give us a picture of what alpha particles are.
00;32;15;09 - 00;32;44;12
Speaker 2
Okay, so picture this deep inside the nucleus of an atom. You've got these tiny heavy particles called protons and neutrons. Now, an alpha particle is basically a package of two protons and two neutrons stuck together. When an atom releases an alpha particle, it's like shooting off a tiny bullet of positive energy. These particles don't travel very far, but they pack a punch when they hit something.
00;32;44;15 - 00;32;48;24
Speaker 1
What do you mean by pack a punch?
00;32;48;26 - 00;33;10;06
Speaker 2
When I say alpha particles pack a punch, I mean they have a lot of energy, and they can cause a lot of damage when they hit something. Think of them like tiny bowling balls when they collide with something. They can cause a lot of disruption. In the case of biological tissue. That disruption can lead to cell damage and even cell death.
00;33;10;08 - 00;33;16;19
Speaker 1
Does that come? Does that come in the form of kind of like a burn?
00;33;16;21 - 00;33;37;14
Speaker 2
Not exactly a burn, but it can cause something similar. When an alpha particle hits your skin. It doesn't penetrate very deep, but it can damage the cells right at the surface. This can cause redness and irritation, almost like a mild sunburn. It's called radiation burns, and it's one of the most common effects of alpha particle exposure.
00;33;37;16 - 00;33;41;18
Speaker 1
Okay, what about beta particles?
00;33;41;21 - 00;34;01;07
Speaker 2
All right, so beta particles are basically super charged electrons. They're a lot smaller and lighter than alpha particles. And they can zip along at nearly the speed of light. Because of that, they can penetrate a little deeper into matter than alpha particles. You might be wondering why they're created in the first place. Well, it's a bit complicated, but essentially they're a byproduct of a process called beta decay.
00;34;01;09 - 00;34;13;18
Speaker 2
This happens when a neutron inside the nucleus of an atom turns into a proton, and in the process it spits out a beta particle.
00;34;13;21 - 00;34;18;13
Speaker 1
And when does beta decay occur?
00;34;18;16 - 00;34;33;08
Speaker 2
You're asking about when babies get hey, occur. I'm a little confused by that. Did you perhaps mean hay at the type of allergy that can affect people of all ages, including babies? If you meant something else, could you please clarify?
00;34;33;11 - 00;34;39;19
Speaker 1
When does beta decay occur?
00;34;39;21 - 00;35;04;05
Speaker 2
Beta decay happens when an atom has an unstable nucleus. Basically, it has an uneven number of protons and neutrons. To fix this imbalance, a neutron turns into a proton, and that change creates a beta particle which gets ejected from the nucleus. This process is kind of like a chemical reaction inside the atom itself.
00;35;04;07 - 00;35;11;00
Speaker 1
Okay, what about a neutron?
00;35;11;03 - 00;35;30;14
Speaker 2
All right. So neutrons are kind of weird. They're one of the building blocks of the nuclear along with protons. But unlike protons, neutrons don't have any electrical charge. Neutrons can be released during nuclear reactions, like when a heavy atom splits apart. They can also be part of cosmic rays that come from outer space.
00;35;30;16 - 00;35;34;18
Speaker 1
Are they harmful?
00;35;34;20 - 00;35;52;15
Speaker 2
Yep. Neutrons can definitely cause harm even though they don't have a charge. Like protons and electrons, they can still mess up atoms when they collide with them. This can damage cells and tissues, and in high enough doses even lead to cancer.
00;35;52;17 - 00;36;00;09
Speaker 1
How do they harm the things that they come in contact with?
00;36;00;11 - 00;36;22;13
Speaker 2
All right, so neutrons are like tiny wrecking ball. When it comes to atom. When a neutron slams into an atom, it can cause a lot of damage. Sometimes it knocks other particles out of the atom, completely changing it. This process is called ionization, and it can lead to a lot of problems for living cells.
00;36;22;16 - 00;36;28;14
Speaker 1
So it's just the speed at which they move.
00;36;28;16 - 00;36;44;14
Speaker 2
It's not just the speed, but also the fact that neutrons are so heavy that added weight means they can pack a real punch when they hit something. Imagine getting hit by a slow moving bowling ball. It still hurts, right? It's kind of the same idea with neutrons.
00;36;44;16 - 00;36;58;17
Speaker 1
Yeah, but why do neutrons from atomic radiation hurt? But like neutrons that are in the atoms in the air, don't.
00;36;58;19 - 00;37;18;08
Speaker 2
That's a great question. The difference lies in a few things. First, neutrons from atomic radiation are often moving at super high speed, giving them a ton of energy to cause damage. Second, the neutrons in an atom's nucleus are tightly bound to the other particles in the nucleus. Think of it like they're part of a stable structure. Neutrons from atomic radiation, on the other hand, are free agents.
00;37;18;11 - 00;37;31;12
Speaker 2
They're zipping around on their own, looking to cause trouble when they hit something. They have that extra energy to really mess things up.
00;37;31;15 - 00;37;39;29
Speaker 1
Okay. And then we talked about gamma rays quite a bit. Is there anything else you'd like to share about gamma rays?
00;37;40;02 - 00;38;02;04
Speaker 2
Yeah. There's one more thing about gamma rays that's worth mentioning. Since they have so much energy, they can actually create new particles when they interact with matter. This process is called pair production, and it's pretty wild. Basically, a gamma ray can disappear and turn into a particle and its opposite like an electron and a positron.
00;38;02;06 - 00;38;08;20
Speaker 1
What? Explain that more, please.
00;38;08;22 - 00;38;30;12
Speaker 2
All right, so imagine a gamma ray zooming through space. It's got a ton of energy packed into it. Now, when this gamma ray passes really close to the nucleus of an atom, something crazy happens. That energy from the gamma ray gets turned into matter. Specifically an electron and its opposite called a positron. It's like magic, but it's actually explained by Einstein's famous equation E equals mc2.
00;38;30;17 - 00;38;50;07
Speaker 2
That equation basically says that energy and matter are two sides of the same coin. So that super energetic gamma ray has enough energy to become matter.
00;38;50;09 - 00;38;59;00
Speaker 1
Is that the only instance where a wave can become a particle?
00;38;59;03 - 00;39;15;12
Speaker 2
Yep. That's the only way we can directly turn a wave into a particle that we know of. There are theories about other ways that might happen, but pair production with gamma rays is the one we've confirmed through experiments.
00;39;15;15 - 00;39;32;25
Speaker 1
Okay, so let's put this radiation thing in, some examples. So let's say the bomb that was dropped on, Hiroshima or Nagasaki. Either one.
00;39;32;25 - 00;39;39;25
Speaker 2
All right. Let's talk about some real world examples of radiation. What kind of scenario did you have in mind?
00;39;39;28 - 00;40;02;22
Speaker 1
Let's talk about how these four particles, or I guess three particles and the gamma rays are distributed historically after, a nuclear explosion like test explosions that we've seen or the bombs that were dropped on Japan.
00;40;02;25 - 00;40;20;13
Speaker 2
All right. So after a nuclear explosion, those different types of radiation spread out in a few different ways. Gamma rays and neutrons are the ones that move the fastest. They shoot out from the blast in a burst, causing immediate damage. Think of them like a flash of light, but way more dangerous. Then you've got the alpha and beta particles.
00;40;20;20 - 00;40;43;27
Speaker 2
They don't travel as far, but they're still dangerous. A lot of them get caught up in the debris from the explosion. Things like dust and dirt. This debris becomes radioactive fallout, and it can spread over a wide area depending on the wind.
00;40;43;29 - 00;40;51;28
Speaker 1
So only the alpha and beta particles are considered fallout.
00;40;52;01 - 00;41;12;16
Speaker 2
Not quite. Gamma rays and neutrons also contribute to fallout when they hit atoms in the air and debris. They can make those atoms radioactive. It's the radioactive debris that we call fallout. So while alpha and beta particles are part of the fallout, they're not the only cause of it.
00;41;12;19 - 00;41;28;28
Speaker 1
Can you give me a specific example of, an atom or a molecule or something that is hit by a gamma ray and then becomes radioactive?
00;41;29;01 - 00;41;50;26
Speaker 2
Okay, so let's talk about carbon 12. It's a really common form of carbon, and it's not radioactive. Now, if you hit carbon 12 with a gamma ray, you could turn it into carbon 11. That form of carbon is radioactive, and it breaks down over time. That's just one example. But gamma rays can make a lot of different atoms radioactive.
00;41;50;29 - 00;41;59;05
Speaker 1
Is carbon 12 the one that, like, makes up most living things?
00;41;59;08 - 00;42;23;01
Speaker 2
Yep. You're right. Carbon 12 is the most common form of carbon, and it's a building block for most living things. So when we talk about turning carbon 12 into the radioactive carbon 11 with gamma rays, it's kind of like taking a normal Lego brick and turning it into a weird, unstable one.
00;42;23;04 - 00;42;40;15
Speaker 1
What is the behavior of carbon 12 and molecules that contain carbon 12? Once they are converted to carbon 11 by a gamma ray.
00;42;40;17 - 00;43;06;17
Speaker 2
All right, so once that carbon 12 atom gets hit by a gamma ray and turns into carbon 11, it becomes unstable. That means it wants to change back into something more stable. It does this by releasing a particle called a positron. Now, this change doesn't affect the molecule the carbon atom is part of right away, but that newly created carbon 11 atom is basically a ticking time bomb inside the molecule.
00;43;06;19 - 00;43;13;21
Speaker 1
Okay, continue. Explain the time bomb that is carbon 11.
00;43;13;23 - 00;43;33;22
Speaker 2
Think of carbon 11 like a really unstable Lego brick. It doesn't like being that way. So it tries to change back into something more stable. To do that, it releases a positron that makes the carbon 11 atom more stable. But it also creates a new problem that positron is also unstable. It's like fixing one problem and accidentally creating another.
00;43;33;25 - 00;43;40;08
Speaker 1
Okay. And then what is that positron? Do?
00;43;40;10 - 00;43;59;00
Speaker 2
All right. So that positron is like a tiny bit of antimatter. It's basically the opposite of an electron. Now when a positron meets an electron, they basically annihilate each other in a burst of energy. It's like mixing oil and water. They just don't get along. That energy released when the positron and electron disappear gets turned into two gamma rays.
00;43;59;07 - 00;44;15;29
Speaker 2
So you've got this chain reaction happening. Gamma ray turns carbon 12 into unstable carbon 11, which releases a positron, which then meets an electron and releases two more gamma rays.
00;44;16;01 - 00;44;21;09
Speaker 1
So it can just snowball like that.
00;44;21;11 - 00;44;42;27
Speaker 2
Well, it doesn't exactly snowball. The process you're describing only happens with carbon 11, and it only happens once with the gamma rays produced by the positron and electron annihilating each other could potentially hit other atoms and start the process again. It's a bit like a chain reaction, but it's not guaranteed to keep going.
00;44;42;29 - 00;44;50;23
Speaker 1
And you said that a positron is like anti-matter. What is anti-matter?
00;44;50;26 - 00;45;16;09
Speaker 2
Think of antimatter as the opposite of regular matter. For every particle of matter, there's a corresponding antiparticle of anti-matter. They have the same mass but opposite charges. So an electron, which is negatively charged has a positively charged antiparticle called a positron. When matter and antimatter meet, they annihilate each other in a burst of energy. It's like they cancel each other out, releasing a huge amount of energy in the process.
00;45;16;11 - 00;45;24;03
Speaker 1
Okay, I think anti-matter is going to have to wait for another day. So.
00;45;24;09 - 00;45;32;17
Speaker 2
Sounds good. We can definitely pick up with anti-matter another time. Do you want to stick with radiation for now or switch to a different topic?
00;45;32;19 - 00;45;41;22
Speaker 1
So what do alpha and beta particles do to, living things?
00;45;41;24 - 00;46;04;04
Speaker 2
All right, so alpha and beta particles caused damage by ionizing atoms. That means they knock electrons. All right. So alpha and beta particles are like tiny destructive bullets. When it comes to living things, when they zip through cells, they create these highly reactive particles called ions. Think of ion, those really angry molecules that go around damaging everything inside.
00;46;04;08 - 00;46;27;14
Speaker 2
They can break apart DNA, which is the blueprint for life and that can lead to mutations and even cell death. So to recap, alpha and beta particles caused damage by creating these destructive ions that mess up cells and DNA.
00;46;27;17 - 00;46;41;12
Speaker 1
So we're talking about like, nuclear fallout. There's a lot of dust involved. Can you tell me what that does? Is.
00;46;41;15 - 00;47;21;14
Speaker 2
All right, so that dust plays a couple of roles. First, it acts like a sponge soaking up all those nasty radioactive particles. Think of it like sprinkling radioactive sand on Velcro. It all sticks together. The other thing is that dust can carry those radioactive particles really far. You know how dust can get into the smallest cracks? Well, radioactive dust can do the same thing, contaminating anything it touches.
00;47;21;16 - 00;47;32;05
Speaker 1
So are the alpha and beta particles the dust, or are they attached to the dust? Well.
00;47;32;07 - 00;47;45;13
Speaker 2
Think of it this way. The alpha and beta particles are like the dangerous passengers, and the dust is the vehicle that carries them around. The particles themselves don't make up the dust, but they stick to it and get carried along for the ride.
00;47;45;15 - 00;47;55;03
Speaker 1
How do they stick to this dust? And then why are they still dangerous? After sticking to the dust?
00;47;55;05 - 00;48;15;25
Speaker 2
Okay, so those alpha and beta particles stick to the dust in a couple of ways. First, there's a little bit of static electricity involved. When atoms get blasted apart, they can end up with a positive or negative charge. Those particles can also have a charge. So opposites attract and they stick together. They're still dangerous because even after they're stuck to the dust, they're still giving off radiation.
00;48;16;00 - 00;48;31;26
Speaker 2
It's like having a bunch of tiny radioactive batteries scattered around. If you breathe in that dust, or if it gets into a cart, those radioactive particles can start damaging your cells from the inside.
00;48;31;28 - 00;48;45;29
Speaker 1
So isn't the dangerous part about alpha and beta particles that they have a charge to them? So when they stick to something, when they lose their charge.
00;48;46;02 - 00;49;06;15
Speaker 2
That's a good point. The charge on alpha and beta particles definitely plays a part in how they interact with dust and other materials. When they stick to something, they can lose their charge, but that doesn't make them any less dangerous. Even without the charge, they're still radioactive and can still cause damage.
00;49;06;17 - 00;49;21;11
Speaker 1
Okay, so I was under the assumption that it was the charge specifically that makes them dangerous and radioactive. If not, what makes them dangerous?
00;49;21;14 - 00;49;49;05
Speaker 2
You're absolutely right. The charge itself isn't what makes alpha and beta particles dangerous. It's their ability to ionize atoms, meaning they knock electrons off, creating those unstable ions. This happens whether or not they have a charge. So to be clear, if the ionizing property of alpha and beta particles, not their charge specifically, that makes them hazardous.
00;49;49;07 - 00;50;00;25
Speaker 1
And what are the ionizing properties of alpha and beta particles that are able to do that?
00;50;00;27 - 00;50;19;24
Speaker 2
All right. So alpha and beta particles caused damage because they have a lot of kinetic energy. That's the energy of motion when they zip through matter. They basically act like tiny battering ram colliding with atoms and knocking electrons loose. Think of it like playing pool. The cue ball, the alpha or beta particle hits the other balls. The atoms sending them flying.
00;50;19;28 - 00;50;32;10
Speaker 2
In this case, those flying electrons are what caused the damage.
00;50;32;13 - 00;50;45;07
Speaker 1
But aren't alpha and beta particles still dangerous when they're static? Or am I thinking it to large of a scale?
00;50;45;10 - 00;51;05;28
Speaker 2
You're absolutely right. Even if alpha and beta particles lose their charge, they're still dangerous. The key to their danger isn't the charge itself, but their ability to cause ionization. That means knocking electrons off atoms and creating those unstable ions. Think of it like this. The charge is like a handle on the particle, but the ionizing ability is the sharp blade that does the damage.
00;51;06;05 - 00;51;10;09
Speaker 2
You could remove the handle, but the blade is still dangerous.
00;51;10;11 - 00;51;18;23
Speaker 1
So what is their method for ionizing things?
00;51;18;25 - 00;51;56;21
Speaker 2
Think of alpha and beta particles like tiny high speed bullets when they zip through matter. They can collide with the electrons orbiting the nucleus of an atom. This collision can knock the electron clean out of its orbit, creating an ion. It's kind of like playing pool, but instead of knocking balls into pockets, you're knocking electrons off atoms.
00;51;56;23 - 00;52;04;27
Speaker 1
So how is radioactive dust that's sitting on the ground? Dangerous.
00;52;05;00 - 00;52;24;22
Speaker 2
Think of radioactive dust like a tiny ticking time bomb. Even though the alpha and beta particles are stuck to the dust, they're still releasing radiation. If you breathe in that dust, those radioactive particles get into your lungs and can start damaging your cells from the inside. The same thing happens if you eat food or drink water that's contaminated with radioactive dust.
00;52;24;29 - 00;52;29;20
Speaker 2
Those nasty particles get inside your body and start wreaking havoc.
00;52;29;22 - 00;52;37;28
Speaker 1
What kind of radiation are these particles putting out?
00;52;38;01 - 00;52;56;11
Speaker 2
That radioactive dust is giving off the same kind of radiation as the original alpha and beta particles. It's just a slower release. Think of it like a leaky battery. It's not giving off a big burst of energy, but it's still putting out a steady stream of radiation.
00;52;56;13 - 00;53;01;11
Speaker 1
And what form is this radiation.
00;53;01;13 - 00;53;15;10
Speaker 2
That radioactive dust is giving off the same kind of radiation as the original alpha and beta particles. It's just a slower release. Think of it like a leaky battery. It's not giving off a big burst of energy, but it's still putting out a steady stream of radiation.
00;53;15;13 - 00;53;23;25
Speaker 1
What kind of radiation do the alpha and beta particles let off?
00;53;23;27 - 00;53;47;11
Speaker 2
Alpha and beta particles themselves aren't a form of radiation. They're the radiation. Think of them like the bullets being fired from a gun when they hit something and cause damage. That's the radiation effect.
00;53;47;13 - 00;54;14;21
Speaker 1
I think. Can you understand it? Or can you explain it in a different way? I'm really having a hard time wrapping my head around how alpha and beta particles cause damage when, when they're not moving at any speed, they're just sitting there.
00;54;14;23 - 00;54;35;11
Speaker 2
Okay, so you're absolutely right. Alpha and beta particles have to be moving to cause damage when they're just sitting there stuck in dust. They're not actively causing harm. The danger comes when you breathe in that dust. Once those particles are inside your body. They start moving around and can get close enough to yourself to cause damage. It's kind of like having tiny radioactive bullets stuck to your clothing.
00;54;35;17 - 00;54;42;19
Speaker 2
They're not dangerous until they get inside your body.
00;54;42;21 - 00;54;49;00
Speaker 1
And why are they dangerous? Once they get in your body?
00;54;49;03 - 00;55;23;13
Speaker 2
Think of your body as a busy city. Alpha and beta particles are like tiny, destructive cars that have gotten loose inside. They zoom around, crashing into things and causing damage. When they hit your cells, they can break apart the DNA, which is like the city's blueprint. This damage can lead to mutations or even cell death.
00;55;23;15 - 00;55;41;19
Speaker 1
Okay, so they get in there. And the alpha particle, because it's positively charged, just rips electrons off of things and the beta particle, because it's negatively charged, just sticks to stuff. And causes issues.
00;55;41;22 - 00;56;14;06
Speaker 2
That's not quite right. Both alpha and beta particles cause damage by ionizing atoms, meaning they knock electrons off. It's not about their own charge, but about the energy they transfer when they hit something. Think of it like playing pool. The cue ball, the alpha or beta particle hits another ball, knocking it off course. In this case, the electrons are the ones that get knocked off the atoms they're orbiting.
00;56;14;08 - 00;56;26;12
Speaker 1
Can you give me a specific example of how an alpha particle can knock off an electron from another molecule or atom?
00;56;26;14 - 00;56;51;19
Speaker 2
Absolutely. Let's use water as an example. Water is made up of H2O molecules, two hydrogen atoms and one oxygen atom bonded together. Now imagine an alpha particle zipping through this water as it travels. It can collide with the electrons orbiting the hydrogen and oxygen atom. This collision can knock an electron right off the atom, creating an ion. In this case, you'd have a positively charged hydrogen ion and a negatively charged electron floating around.
00;56;51;26 - 00;57;13;15
Speaker 2
This process creates all sorts of problems, especially in living things, because those ions can disrupt important chemical reactions.
00;57;13;17 - 00;57;25;27
Speaker 1
So when it pulls this electron off, does that electron just go flying away, or does it stick to the alpha particle?
00;57;25;29 - 00;57;42;28
Speaker 2
That knocked off electrons usually just goes flying away. It doesn't stick to the alpha particle. Think of it like if you hit a billiard ball hard enough, the cue ball keeps going and the other ball flies off in a different direction. That free electron can cause problems of its own, since it's now missing from its original atom.
00;57;43;01 - 00;57;47;29
Speaker 1
What kind of problems can that cause?
00;57;48;01 - 00;57;53;10
Speaker 2
You can't buy problems, but you can buy things that might cause problems. For example, if you buy a faulty.
00;57;53;16 - 00;57;54;18
Speaker 1
And I'm interrupting.
00;57;54;22 - 00;58;02;24
Speaker 2
That could cause problem. No problem. What can I help you with?
00;58;02;26 - 00;58;16;25
Speaker 1
Can you describe similar to the way that you did with the alpha particle, how the beta particle pulls electrons off of other molecules?
00;58;16;28 - 00;58;38;13
Speaker 2
Absolutely. Beta particles work in a similar way to alpha particles. They also cause damage by ionizing atoms, meaning they knock electrons off. But there's a key difference. Beta particles are much smaller and lighter than alpha particles. Because of this, they can zip through matter much faster and farther. So while an alpha particle might only travel a few centimeters in the air, a beta particle can travel several meters.
00;58;38;20 - 00;58;50;07
Speaker 2
This means beta particles can penetrate deeper into materials, including living tissue.
00;58;50;09 - 00;59;04;17
Speaker 1
Can you give me an example of how a beta particle would interact with H2O like you did with an alpha particle? And unless that's an unrealistic example.
00;59;04;19 - 00;59;23;01
Speaker 2
All right. So a beta particle is basically a high speed electron. When it zips through water, it can interact with the electrons in the water molecules in a few ways. First off, it can collide directly with an electron knocking it clean out of its atom. This creates an ion pair, a positively charged atom, and a negatively charged electron.
00;59;23;07 - 00;59;43;19
Speaker 2
Another thing that can happen is something called ionization by excitation. The beta particle might not have enough energy to knock an electron completely off, but it can give it a big energy boost. This excited electron can then escape the atom, leaving behind a positive ion.
00;59;43;21 - 00;59;47;04
Speaker 1
What was the first method?
00;59;47;06 - 00;59;50;02
Speaker 2
The first method was hey, Gemini.
00;59;50;04 - 00;59;58;03
Speaker 1
Know the first method of how a beta particle particle pulls off an electron?
00;59;58;05 - 01;00;17;25
Speaker 2
Sure thing though, when a beta particle zips through water, it can interact with the electrons in the water molecules in a few ways. One way is through direct collision. The beta particle, which is essentially a high speed electron, can collide with another electron in a water molecule. This collision can transfer enough energy to knock that electron completely out of its orbit, creating an ion.
01;00;18;02 - 01;00;34;22
Speaker 2
It's like if you hit a billiard ball hard enough, the cue ball, the beta particle keeps going, and the other ball, the electron, flies off in a different direction.
01;00;34;24 - 01;00;47;05
Speaker 1
Are the neutrons that are emitted from an atomic blast? Are they dangerous? After they come to a stop?
01;00;47;07 - 01;00;53;24
Speaker 2
Yes. Even when neutrons come to a stop, they can still be dangerous. They can be absorbed by the nucleus of an atom.
01;00;53;24 - 01;01;04;22
Speaker 1
Making that atom unstable. This can lead to the atom releasing other types of radiation like gamma rays.
01;01;04;25 - 01;01;18;04
Speaker 2
Can you give me a little bit of detail about how a neutron, maybe a specific example of a neutron being absorbed by a nucleus?
01;01;18;06 - 01;01;40;25
Speaker 1
All right. So let's talk about the element boron. It's really good at absorbing neutrons. And it's actually used in nuclear reactors to control the reaction. When a neutron gets close to a boron atom it can get sucked into the nucleus. This makes the boron atom unstable. And it doesn't like that to fix things. The boron atom splits apart into an alpha particle, which is basically a helium nucleus and a lithium atom.
01;01;40;27 - 01;02;02;19
Speaker 1
So you've got this chain reaction happening. The neutron gets absorbed, making the boron unstable. And then the boron splits apart, releasing an alpha particle.
01;02;02;22 - 01;02;09;14
Speaker 2
Okay, I think that's a bit. That's it for today. We've covered a lot.
01;02;09;16 - 01;02;15;29
Speaker 1
Sounds good. We can definitely pick this back up another time. Would you like to focus on something else today? Or are you ready to wrap things up?
01;02;16;06 - 01;02;21;29
Speaker 2
Now, let's wrap it up.
01;02;22;02 - 01;02;23;02
Speaker 2
Piece. Gemini.
01;02;23;04 - 01;02;31;02
Speaker 1
Okay. Sounds good. Just to recap, we covered a lot of any time. Let me know if you have any other questions.