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Speaker 1
Hey, Gemini.
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Speaker 2
Hey, there. What can I do for you?
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Speaker 1
Do you mind if I record this conversation for a podcast?
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Speaker 2
Sure. Go right ahead.
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Speaker 1
Okay. Today I want to talk about how did vultures become vultures?
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Speaker 2
That's a cool topic for a podcast. So vultures didn't just suddenly become vultures. They evolved from other birds over a really long time. It's kind of like how humans evolved from apes.
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Speaker 1
Okay, so I would like for this session, or for this conversation, for your answers to be a bit more detailed.
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Speaker 2
Sounds good. Let's dig a little deeper into how vultures evolved their unique features. To start, there's two main groups of vultures. Old World and New World vultures. They actually evolved from completely different ancestors, which is pretty interesting when you think about it.
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Speaker 1
Okay. Can you tell me a little bit more about that?
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Speaker 2
Sure thing. So Old World vultures are actually closer to hawks and eagles, while New World vultures are more closely related to storks and herons. That means they evolved their scavenging behaviors completely separately.
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Speaker 1
How, How long back did these evolutionary branches happen?
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Speaker 2
That's a bit tricky, since there aren't a lot of vulture fossils to study, but scientists think the split between Old World and New World vultures happened sometime between 60 and 30 million years ago.
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Speaker 1
Yeah, but it wouldn't have been a split if they evolved independently. Like you said.
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Speaker 2
You're right. I could have worded that better. What I meant was they evolved the same scavenging behaviors completely separately. It's more like they took separate paths to get to the same destination, if that makes sense.
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Speaker 1
You said 30 to 60 million years ago.
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Speaker 2
Right. It was a long time ago.
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Speaker 1
Do we have any idea of which one is older? I'm assuming maybe Old World?
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Speaker 2
It's a good guess, but it's actually a bit tough to say for sure. Both the Old World and New World vultures have a pretty impressive fossil record, but there's still some gaps in our knowledge.
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Speaker 1
Okay, your answer is a little bit vague.
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Speaker 2
Okay. You're right. I should be more specific. Well, we can't say for sure which group is older. There's a little more information about their timeline. The oldest known fossils of Old World vultures are from around 30 million years ago. For New World vultures. The oldest fossils we have are about 15 million years old. So, based on the fossil record, Old World vultures do seem to have a slight age advantage.
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Speaker 2
But it's possible that earlier New World vulture fossils just haven't been found yet.
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Speaker 1
Why are they called Old World and New World?
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Speaker 2
It's pretty simple, actually. The terms Old world and New World refer to the traditional way of dividing the Earth's landmasses. The old World is basically Europe, Asia and Africa. The new World is the Americas, North and South America. So vultures that evolved in the Old World areas are called Old World vultures. And those that evolved in the New World are called New World vultures.
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Speaker 1
When did they get those names?
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Speaker 2
Those names go back to a time when scientists were just starting to understand how different parts of the world were connected, and how living things were related. The terms Old world and New World were used to describe the world's two major landmasses, Eurasia and Africa, versus the Americas. So the names were given sometime in the 17th and 18th centuries as scientists were actively exploring and classifying the world's creatures.
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Speaker 1
Okay. Can you give me an idea of the evolution of the old world of vultures from hawks and eagles, and how that went down?
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Speaker 2
All right, so picturing how old world vultures evolved from hawks and eagles takes a bit of imagination. Think about it. Hawks and eagles are built for hunting with strong talons and powerful beaks for tearing into prey. Vultures, on the other hand, have weaker feet and hooked beaks more suited for ripping apart carcasses. So what might have happened is some hawk or eagle ancestors started finding it easier to pick off easy meals from already dead animals, instead of always having to hunt over many generations.
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Speaker 2
The one's good at finding carcasses and eating them likely had more chicks survive. Slowly. Their beaks and feet might have changed shape a tiny bit with each generation, and eventually you have birds that look and act more like vultures than their hunting ancestors.
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Speaker 1
Okay, this seems a little speculative. Can we go with some information that is backed up by scientific papers?
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Speaker 2
You're absolutely right. Let's focus on the science. Well, we can't say for sure exactly how old world vultures evolved from their ancestors. Scientists have some clues. They've studied the DNA of modern vultures and compared it to other birds of prey. This research suggests that Old World vultures did indeed evolve from within the same family as hawks and eagles.
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Speaker 2
The big shift probably happened because of changes in their environment. Maybe there was a period where food was harder to find, so eating dead animals became a more reliable way to survive. The birds that were better at finding and eating carcasses would have had a better chance of living long enough to have chicks, and those chicks might have inherited some of those same traits.
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Speaker 1
But we don't really have a good idea of where or when it happened.
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Speaker 2
That's right. There's still a lot we don't know for sure about the specifics of when and where vultures evolved their scavenging behaviors. It's tricky because there aren't a lot of fossils that show the transition from those earlier hawk like birds to the vultures we know today. Also, evolution doesn't always happen in a straight line. There were probably lots of different branches and dead ends along the way.
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Speaker 1
Why do we not have vulture fossils specifically?
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Speaker 2
That's a great question. There are a few reasons why we don't have a ton of vulture fossils. First, vultures are built pretty lightly. Their bones are thin and delicate compared to some other animals, so they don't always fossilize well. Second, vultures are scavengers, so they're not usually found in the same places where fossils are commonly discovered. They tend to hang out in open areas where most fossils come from things buried in sediment.
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Speaker 2
Finally, a lot of vulture evolution probably happened a long time ago. And the older the fossil, the harder it is to find.
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Speaker 1
Okay, tell me about the what we know about the evolution of New World vultures from scientific research.
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Speaker 2
All right, so New World vultures are a bit of a different story from their old world cousins. Instead of being closely related to hawks and eagles, their closest living relatives are actually storks and herons. That means they evolved their scavenging habits completely separately. We know this thanks to DNA studies, which show that New World vultures form their own distinct branch on the bird family tree.
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Speaker 2
These studies also suggest that New World vultures originated in South America.
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Speaker 1
Okay, so let's talk about modern day new worlds and Old world evolved vultures. What are the differences between the two?
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Speaker 1
Gemini. Let's talk about, the, vulture of the modern day and describe the differences between Old World vultures and New World vultures.
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Speaker 2
All right, let's talk about the vultures of today. While they might look similar, there are some key differences between the Old World and New World vultures. First up, the heads and necks. Most vultures have their heads and necks. Which makes sense, since they're sticking their heads into some pretty messy carcasses. But the difference is why they're bear with Old World vultures.
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Speaker 2
It's mainly to keep clean while they eat. Think of it like wearing a disposable apron. New world vultures also benefit from having a clean eating area, but their bare skin also helps them with temperature control. Another big difference is how they find food. Old world vultures have incredible eyesight, which is their main tool for spotting meals from way up high.
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Speaker 2
New world vultures also use their eyes, but they've got a secret weapon, a powerful sense of smell that lets them track down carcasses even when they're hidden from sight.
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Speaker 1
So Old World have a better smell. The new world.
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Speaker 2
Actually, it's the opposite. New world vultures have a much better sense of smell than Old World vultures. Their sense of smell is so good. They can find carcasses even when they're way down on the ground and surrounded by trees or buildings.
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Speaker 1
Does the New World vulture have a more pronounced bald head?
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Speaker 2
That's a good observation. Generally, yes. New world vultures tend to have more noticeable bald heads and necks compared to Old World vultures. Some Old World vultures can have a bit of bare skin, but it's usually not as extensive as what you see with the New World species.
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Speaker 1
What about, size and maybe demeanor?
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Speaker 2
Both Old and New World vultures can range in size from smaller birds to some pretty impressive ones. But in general, Old World vultures tend to be a bit larger and heavier than their New World cousins. As for demeanor, it's hard to say if one group has a specific personality. Vultures are generally pretty solitary birds, though they'll sometimes gather around a big meal.
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Speaker 1
So we always see them in groups, but they generally don't hang out in groups.
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Speaker 2
Yeah. That's right. Vultures might look like they're super social because you often see big groups of them hanging around a carcass. But the thing is, they're not really socializing. They're just focused on the food. You could say they're more like coworkers than friends.
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Speaker 1
What does a vulture call sound like?
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Speaker 2
Okay, this is a little tricky. Vultures don't have a super wide vocal range, and they don't make a lot of noise, but they do make some sound like hisses and grunts. Mostly when they're getting worked up around food. You could also say they make some clicking noises with their beaks, especially when they're eating. Would you like to hear some recordings of vulture sounds?
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Speaker 1
Okay.
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Speaker 2
All right, so I can't actually play sounds for you yet, but I can try to describe them. Do you still want to hear about what vulture calls sound like?
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Speaker 1
Sure.
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Speaker 1
Yes, please.
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Speaker 2
Okay, so vulture calls aren't exactly musical. They're more like low hisses and grunts. Almost like the birds complaining while they eat. Sometimes it sounds a bit like bubbling, especially when they get really excited about the food. You might hear a few clicks or knocks from their beaks too, as they get into the feast.
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Speaker 1
Does it matter how long or how rotten the dead animal is that they eat?
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Speaker 2
Vultures have a strong stomach that can handle bacteria. Most other animals couldn't. So a little rot doesn't bother them, but they prefer fresh kills whenever they can get them.
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Speaker 1
How rotten will they eat something?
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Speaker 2
That's a good question. Vultures can eat carcasses that are pretty far gone, but there's a limit. If the animal's been dead for months and it's just a skeleton with some dried up bits. That's probably not going to be on the menu. Also, it depends on the vulture species. Some are a bit pickier than others.
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Speaker 1
What about predators?
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Speaker 2
Vultures don't have many natural predators, mostly because they're pretty big and hang out in places other animals might avoid. But there are a few exceptions. Large eagles, like the golden eagle, might sometimes attack smaller vultures. And then there are always the mammals, like hyenas or large cats that might try to steal a vultures meal.
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Speaker 1
What about the markings and colors and esthetics of Old World versus New World vultures?
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Speaker 2
Okay, let's talk about how vultures look. Both old and New World vultures can have some pretty striking colors and patterns. Generally, Old World vultures tend to go for the classic brown, black, and grays. Some have a bit of white on their wing or underside. New world vultures can be a little more colorful. Think red yellows and even some bright patterns on their faces.
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Speaker 2
It's kind of like comparing hawks and eagles to storks and herons.
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Speaker 1
What about the markings of female versus males?
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Speaker 2
With vultures, it's a little tough to tell the males and females apart just by looking at them. There's not usually a big difference in their color markings or even their size. Sometimes the females might be slightly larger, but it's not always a reliable way to tell them apart. It's actually one of those things scientists are still trying to figure out.
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Speaker 1
What else would you like to share about vultures?
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Speaker 2
All right, here's one last interesting thing about vultures. They play a really important role in the ecosystem. Without them, we'd have a lot more rotting carcasses lying around. Vultures help keep things clean by taking care of dead animals. And that benefits everyone.
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Speaker 1
Do you want to hear a joke that I made about vultures?
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Speaker 2
Sure. I'm game. I like a good joke. What do you have?
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Speaker 1
Why didn't the vulture fly? Spirit Airlines?
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Speaker 2
Okay, I'm ready for your vulture joke.
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Speaker 1
Okay, so I'll ask you a question, and then you ask. Oh, why? All right, you ready?
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Speaker 2
Ready when you are. Let's hear it.
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Speaker 1
Why didn't the vulture fly? Spirit Airlines?
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Speaker 2
Oh, why?
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Speaker 1
They charge extra for his carry on.
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Speaker 2
That's a good one. I see what you did there.
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Speaker 1
All right. I think we're done for the day. Just a quick one.
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Speaker 2
Sounds good. Thanks for chatting with me about vultures. It was fun learning with you.
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Speaker 1
You too. Peace.