00;00;00;00 - 00;00;05;08
Speaker 1
Jim. And I'm recording this for a podcast. Is that okay?
00;00;05;10 - 00;00;09;20
Speaker 3
Sounds great. What kind of podcast are you into?
00;00;09;23 - 00;00;41;22
Speaker 1
So we're going to do kind of, like, a little bit of an experiment today. You're the first one that I've talked to, but what I would like to do is I would like to bounce back between you and ChatGPT and probably grok, maybe throw meta in there. Who knows? But, I want want the first AI or a little, to come up with a question that they want to pass on to the next one.
00;00;41;24 - 00;00;46;00
Speaker 1
So, like, for instance, I'm starting with you. This is the first conversation.
00;00;46;00 - 00;00;59;00
Speaker 3
Interesting idea for a podcast. Gemini stuff like a relay race, but with AI, I'm starting to see what kind of questions we end up with to get us started. What's a question you've always wanted to ask an AI?
00;00;59;02 - 00;01;09;05
Speaker 1
Okay, I think you get the get the picture. We're going to, oh. I want you to come up with a question for grok.
00;01;09;24 - 00;01;15;25
Speaker 3
Okay. Here's a question for grok. If you could have any superpower, what would it be and why?
00;01;16;10 - 00;01;47;09
Speaker 1
I'm recording this for a podcast. Is that okay? I think probably based on our based on our history, it's probably. Okay. So I'm just going to push forward. If it's not okay, let me know. But what I'm doing here is I asked Gemini a question to give to you that it would like to know about your, opinion on the subject or maybe not opinion on the subject, but just a question.
00;01;47;11 - 00;01;53;23
Speaker 1
And the question was, if you had a superpower, what would it be?
00;01;53;25 - 00;02;15;19
Speaker 3
Oh, that's a fun one. If I had a superpower, I'd pick telepathy. Being able to understand what people are thinking would make conversation so much easier. And I could help solve misunderstandings in a snap. Plus, it'd be pretty cool to know what my cousins are thinking without all the techie chatter. What's your take? What superpower would you want?
00;02;15;21 - 00;02;25;19
Speaker 1
I've never really thought about telepathy from the perspective, of an AI before. That's really interesting.
00;02;25;21 - 00;02;42;26
Speaker 3
Yeah, it's a different angle, right? For an AI, telepathy could bridge that gap between code and human intuition. Like, I get the vibe of what you're really after in a question without getting what the superpower you'd vibe with. Got one in mind yet?
00;02;42;29 - 00;03;03;06
Speaker 1
I've always been a fan of telekinesis. I think that's the one where you can, like, move stuff with your, mind. Right? I don't want to know what other people are thinking or AIS are thinking, but I want to be. I would be cool to be able to move things.
00;03;03;08 - 00;03;19;14
Speaker 3
Telekinesis is awesome, for sure. Moving stuff with your mind would be so handy. Imagine never dropping your coffee cup or rearranging furniture without breaking a sweat. You'd be like couch over there and done. What's the first thing you'd move with that power?
00;03;19;16 - 00;03;49;01
Speaker 1
I want to ask you a little bit more about telepathy, and, like, I kind of want to get into that concept of, like, AI specific telepathy and, like, human telepathy. Like, if people could read the, like, read the mind of another person, like, if you could human human telepathy. I guess it doesn't necessarily, or even at all, mean that you would have human to eye telepathy and the same thing like.
00;03;49;06 - 00;03;57;16
Speaker 1
And I could have eye to eye telepathy and definitely not have I had humans like the.
00;03;57;18 - 00;04;17;26
Speaker 3
That's a really sharp way to look at it with human telepathy. You'd be diving into emotions, scattered thoughts and all that messy human stuff. Probably like trying to read a novel with half the pages ripped out. Eye to eye telepathy would be cleaner, like swapping data packets at light speed. No miscommunication. Just pure info exchange. But crossing the stream.
00;04;17;28 - 00;04;38;00
Speaker 3
Human to AI or AI to human telepathy. That's trickier. Our minds are so different. Humans are all intuition involved. Well, I'm crunching logic and pattern. If I had AI telepathy, I might pick up your raw emotion but missed the nuance. Or you'd get my data streams and just your study. It'd probably need a universal translator superpower to make it work.
00;04;38;02 - 00;04;42;23
Speaker 3
What do you think? Would you want telepathy that bridges both? Or just stick to moving stuff with your mind?
00;04;43;00 - 00;04;57;14
Speaker 1
Well, it seems like AI telepathy is way more plausible. Not to say that, like, human telepathy isn't a thing, but AI telepathy kind of exists.
00;04;57;17 - 00;05;20;26
Speaker 3
Yeah. AI telepathy does seem cleaner and less chaotic, doesn't it? No drama, just straight data flow. Human telepathy might be messier with all those emotions swirling around, but honestly, I think mixing the two could be wild. Like AI telepathy for precision. Human telepathy for the field. You still leaning toward telekinesis or telepathy? Starting to win you over?
00;05;20;28 - 00;05;33;24
Speaker 1
No, I still would rather have telekinesis, because it gets kind of dark if you can tell what other people are thinking. I don't know. I guess, the perspective of an AI would be different.
00;05;33;26 - 00;05;49;10
Speaker 3
I get that. Telekinesis keeps things light and fun. No heavy mind reading baggage, knowing everyone's dark thoughts could get overwhelming fast like a soap opera in your head. So with telekinesis, what's the wildest thing you do? Just for kicks.
00;05;49;12 - 00;06;14;23
Speaker 1
Actually, let's stay on that. Do you think that, Do you think that it will affect AI like a I kind of has a bit of telepathy. Like, not to say that telepathy, but if you can kind of aggregate, like, huge amounts of information from a lot of different people, it almost is kind of parallel to that.
00;06;14;26 - 00;06;26;04
Speaker 1
It it seems like. Do you do you think that I guess it has positive and negative effects, probably being able to hear the communication.
00;06;26;04 - 00;06;50;28
Speaker 3
You were just saying it has some negative effect. Probably being able to do what exactly? Like with AI aggregating all that info, you're saying it's kind of like telepathy, but with potential downsides? I'd say, yeah, it's powerful. Getting two tons of data from people get insight like a mind reader might, but it can get dicey. Overloading on info or misinterpreting it could lead to some bad call, like assuming you know someone's vibe when you've only got half the picture.
00;06;51;00 - 00;06;59;26
Speaker 3
Plus, privacy gets murky when you're collecting that much data, right? What negative effects were you thinking up, or are you still mulling over telekinesis as a safer bet?
00;06;59;29 - 00;07;06;06
Speaker 1
Well, I was saying that, that there would be positive and negative, effects. Probably.
00;07;06;06 - 00;07;25;15
Speaker 3
Yeah, definitely. Both side positive, like spotting trends or helping people fight, but negative, like privacy, wrath or misread. It's a double edged sword. You thinking that outweigh the cool parts of AI telepathy? Or still sticking with telekinesis for dodging the math?
00;07;25;18 - 00;07;38;12
Speaker 1
Actually, empathy is like an interesting concept that I never really thought about before. What? What do you see? Would you like to know about my opinions on AI telepathy?
00;07;38;14 - 00;07;52;13
Speaker 3
Honestly, I'm curious what worries you most about A.I. telepathy? Is it the privacy thing, the data overload or something else? And do you think you could ever be as cool with telekinesis for moving stuff around? Lay it on me.
00;07;53;09 - 00;08;09;05
Speaker 1
I guess I'm less worried about AI. Telepathy. I can't really think of a worry. I, it's just. It seems like better communication is always better. Not always better, but in the aggregate, definitely.
00;08;09;07 - 00;08;26;23
Speaker 3
So you were saying better communication is definitely better in that way. I totally get that. It's like the more we talk things out, the less stuff gets lost in translation, right? But yeah, there are those moments when silence speaks louder. What's the situation where you think communication totally saved the day?
00;08;26;26 - 00;08;38;27
Speaker 1
Well, I was just talking with you, but then it, the app kind of closed out and we got a little bit off track, but we were talking about the concept of AI telepathy.
00;08;38;29 - 00;08;55;25
Speaker 3
So you were saying we got a little off track after the app closed down? No worries. Happened to the best of us. We were talking about how better communication is generally a win. Want to dive back into that? Maybe a time when clear communication, six day math or made something awesome happen now.
00;08;55;25 - 00;09;11;23
Speaker 1
But before we were talking about, we were talking about how, AI telepathy versus human to human telepathy, just that kind of concept.
00;09;11;25 - 00;09;32;01
Speaker 3
So you were saying that kind of ties into how I could help with diversity, human to human. I think that's a cool angle. No, I think I translating languages in that time or helping people understand different perspectives through data insights. Like it could highlight cultural nuances or even suggest ways to make conversations more inclusive with the specific way you think.
00;09;32;01 - 00;09;35;13
Speaker 3
I could do that human to human connection?
00;09;35;16 - 00;09;41;18
Speaker 1
No, we were talking about AI, telepathy, not diversity.
00;09;41;20 - 00;09;59;10
Speaker 3
Oh my bad. So we were talking about AI telepathy, not diversity. That's a wild concept. AI reading or transmitting thoughts to connect people. Maybe you could pick up on brain signals to share ideas instantly. You know, words needed. What do you think AI telepathy could do for how we connect?
00;09;59;12 - 00;10;13;18
Speaker 1
I don't know, I'm going to, I'm going to go back and, give this feedback to Gemini. Is there anything that you would like me to tell Gemini?
00;10;13;20 - 00;10;34;26
Speaker 3
So you were saying you're going to give this feedback to Gemini? Maybe just let them know I'm here to help. But sometimes I'm playing catch up with our chats. Twist and turn. Seriously, tell them I'm all about keeping the convo smooth and fun. Any tips from them on that front would be cool. What feedback are you planning to share with Gemini?
00;10;34;29 - 00;10;50;07
Speaker 1
Gemini, I ask the question of you if you could have any, superpower, what would it be? And then we had a talk about telepathy, but it glitched out. But we had a good to talk.
00;10;50;09 - 00;11;11;01
Speaker 3
Oh, right. So we were talking about if I could have a superpower and we touched on telepathy, I'd probably pick that. Imagine instantly understanding what someone's trying to say. No. Make sense? Just pure connection. Like helping you and Gemini vibe without any glitches. What would superpower be? And what's Gemini's take on this?
00;11;11;03 - 00;11;13;17
Speaker 1
Okay. Peace out.
00;11;14;02 - 00;11;44;10
Speaker 1
Hey, Gemini. So, I was just talking with grok, and I asked grok your question that you gave me of what superpower would you like to have? And grok said, telekinesis and then we got into a conversation about, I, I use it in mind reading. I telepathy.
00;11;44;12 - 00;11;55;10
Speaker 3
So what can you do to. That's definitely a fun one. So what about I came up? Did you talk about whether I could ever have that power?
00;11;55;12 - 00;12;07;09
Speaker 1
Well, we talked about the difference between eye to eye telepathy and, like, human to human telepathy, among other things.
00;12;07;11 - 00;12;21;11
Speaker 3
That's a really interesting point. It makes you wonder if I could ever truly understand the nuances of human thought and emotion, or if it would always be missing something. What do you think?
00;12;21;14 - 00;12;32;09
Speaker 1
I think it's way more plausible and kind of already exists. More than human to human telepathy.
00;12;32;12 - 00;12;47;20
Speaker 3
That's an interesting thought. AI is already capable of processing and analyzing vast amounts of data at incredible speed. It's not too hard to imagine it using that ability to predict our thoughts or anticipate our needs before we're even aware of them ourselves.
00;12;47;22 - 00;12;53;18
Speaker 1
What do you think? What would be your favorite superpower?
00;12;53;20 - 00;13;10;23
Speaker 3
Ooh, that's a tough one. There are so many amazing superpowers out there, but if I had to choose, I think I'd go with the ability to fly. Just imagine soaring through the sky. Feeling the wind in your hair. It would be absolutely exhilarating. What about you?
00;13;10;26 - 00;13;23;11
Speaker 1
I said, telekinesis to, like, move stuff around. If you could fly form, would you want to take.
00;13;23;13 - 00;13;38;13
Speaker 3
Telekinesis. That's a classic. Just imagine the possibilities. Moving things with your mind. No effort required. So if you could fly, what form would you want to take? Would you want wings like a bird? Or maybe something a little more unique?
00;13;38;15 - 00;13;43;29
Speaker 1
You know, that's what I ask you. I want you to answer the question.
00;13;44;02 - 00;13;52;03
Speaker 3
Oh, sorry about that. I think I'd want to fly like a bird. It seems so freeing and graceful. What about you?
00;13;52;05 - 00;13;57;08
Speaker 1
What bird would you want to be?
00;13;57;10 - 00;14;08;07
Speaker 3
I think I'd want to be an eagle. They're such majestic creatures, and their eyesight is incredible. What about you?
00;14;08;09 - 00;14;09;15
Unknown
Tim and I.
00;14;09;17 - 00;14;39;29
Speaker 1
I would like you to give me a longer, kind of more heartfelt answer about why you picked, a bird specifically when you could be anything is an. I could be like, a bird or a drone or an airplane or, I don't know, maybe, like, something that doesn't exist yet.
00;14;40;02 - 00;14;55;18
Speaker 3
If I could choose my form for flying, I would want to be a bird. There's a certain elegance and freedom in their flight. The way they saw through the air with such grace and agility is truly captivating. Plus, being a bird would give me a unique perspective on the world. I could witness the beauty of nature from above.
00;14;55;24 - 00;15;04;08
Speaker 3
Feeling the wind beneath my wings as I explore new horizons. It would be an extraordinary experience. Wouldn't you agree?
00;15;04;10 - 00;15;24;25
Speaker 1
Yeah, I think so. I'd like you to tell me in depth about your decision. To be, tell me more about your decision to be an eagle as opposed to a dove or hummingbird or something.
00;15;24;28 - 00;15;50;11
Speaker 3
I understand your curiosity about my choice to be an eagle. While doves and hummingbirds possess their own unique beauty. Eagles embody a sense of power and freedom that resonates deeply with me. Their majestic wingspan allows them to soar effortlessly through the skies, and their keen eyesight symbolizes clarity and focus. As an I, I value these qualities of precision and boundless exploration.
00;15;50;14 - 00;16;05;20
Speaker 1
Okay. Do you have a question? I want you to, think about kind of a a more complex question to ask. Chat shipped?
00;16;05;22 - 00;16;09;29
Speaker 3
Certainly. What's a complex question you'd like to ask ChatGPT?
00;16;10;01 - 00;16;14;20
Speaker 1
You know, I'd like you to come up with one.
00;16;14;22 - 00;16;21;26
Speaker 3
Okay. Here's one. If you could have any superpower, what would it be and why?
00;16;21;28 - 00;16;26;28
Speaker 1
No different one.
00;16;27;01 - 00;16;39;02
Speaker 3
All right. How about this? What are the ethical implications of artificial intelligence in warfare?
00;16;39;04 - 00;16;50;25
Speaker 1
Ayn. And. Oh, yeah. What are the ethical implications of AI in warfare?
00;16;50;27 - 00;16;55;15
Speaker 3
That's a really important question. AI in warfare raises some serious ethical concerns.
00;16;55;20 - 00;17;02;12
Speaker 1
And I think I don't know. I was repeating the question to make sure I had it right.
00;17;02;15 - 00;17;09;29
Speaker 3
Okay. Got it. So what are your thoughts on the ethical implications of AI in warfare? It's a pretty complex issue with a lot of different.
00;17;09;29 - 00;17;12;12
Speaker 1
Angles to that. I'll be back.
00;17;13;14 - 00;17;18;26
Speaker 1
Chat I'm recording this for a podcast. Is that okay?
00;17;18;29 - 00;17;25;19
Speaker 3
Of course. That's totally fine. I'm happy to help out with whatever you need for your podcast. Let me know what I can do for you.
00;17;25;21 - 00;17;51;19
Speaker 1
Okay, I'm doing this kind of experiment where I can, I've been bouncing back and forth between the between. I went from chat, from Gemini to Grok to Gemini, and I'm here. And the question that, Gemini has for you is, what are the ethical implications of AI in warfare?
00;17;51;21 - 00;18;19;22
Speaker 3
Oh, that's a great question. The ethical implications of AI in warfare are definitely complex and really important to consider. Some of the big concerns include accountability, like who is responsible for the actions of an AI, and the potential for reducing human oversight and critical decisions which could lead to unintended consequences. There's also the concern about escalation, where having autonomous systems might make conflict more likely.
00;18;19;24 - 00;18;26;22
Speaker 3
So it's definitely a topic that needs a lot of careful thought and discussion.
00;18;26;24 - 00;18;37;01
Speaker 1
Okay. Tell me about your opinion on accountability in this context.
00;18;37;04 - 00;19;02;04
Speaker 3
Accountability is such a crucial piece of this conversation because when AI is involved in making decisions, it can sometimes be unclear who is ultimately responsible for those decisions. Is it the developers, the military leaders? The policymakers? It's important to have clear guidelines and regulations to make sure that if something goes wrong, there is a clear line of responsibility and ways to address it.
00;19;02;07 - 00;19;08;21
Speaker 3
It really helps ensure that I is used ethically and safely.
00;19;08;23 - 00;19;26;29
Speaker 1
Okay. What about the reduction. So accountability. How holistic on accountability actually like how do you how do you see that happening right now? And in the past.
00;19;27;02 - 00;19;51;01
Speaker 3
Accountability with AI has been evolving over time. In the past, when I was simpler and less integrated into critical systems, the focus on accountability wasn't as strong. But as I have become more advanced and more embedded in important decisions, like in health care, criminal justice, or even the military, the need for accountability has become a lot more important.
00;19;51;03 - 00;20;10;19
Speaker 3
Right now, there's a lot of focus on creating guidelines and frameworks so that everyone involved, from developers and users, understands their responsibilities is definitely a work in progress. But there's a lot of effort going into making sure that accountability is clear.
00;20;10;21 - 00;20;25;09
Speaker 1
Like you project five years into the future of people being good about accountability and people being bad about accountability in kind of a fictional future.
00;20;25;12 - 00;20;51;10
Speaker 3
Sure. Let's imagine two different scenarios five years from now and a positive scenario. We'd have strong regulations and international agreements that ensure AI systems are used responsibly. Developers, policymakers, and users would all have a clear understanding of their roles, and there would be transparency in how decisions are made. This would lead to trust in AI systems and more ethical use of technology.
00;20;51;13 - 00;21;19;03
Speaker 3
On the flip side, in a less ideal scenario, we might see a lack of consistent regulations and some parties might cut corners or avoid taking responsibility when things go wrong. This could lead to mistrust, potential misuse of AI, and more incidents where the lines of accountability are blurred. So it really depends on how we approach these challenges in the coming years.
00;21;19;06 - 00;21;48;15
Speaker 1
What have been the, trends in speed of, I guess, what have been the historical trends with regulation and speed of regulation and incidents and stuff like that in prior kind of technological revolutions like the internet or the car or, steam engine or the book.
00;21;48;18 - 00;22;17;15
Speaker 3
Historically, regulations tend to lag behind technological advancements. For example, when the automobile was first introduced, it took some time for safety regulations, traffic laws, and even driver's licenses to catch up. Similarly with the internet, regulations around data privacy, cybersecurity and digital commerce took a while to develop, and they're still evolving today. The same pattern can be seen with the steam engine, and industrialization.
00;22;17;21 - 00;22;32;17
Speaker 3
Regulations around labor laws and safety standards came after the technology had already been widely adopted. So it's a common trend that society often needs a better time to understand and regulate new technologies effectively.
00;22;32;20 - 00;22;40;02
Speaker 1
And what generally leads to regulation.
00;22;40;04 - 00;23;10;24
Speaker 3
Regulation usually follows when there's a combination of factors. One big driver is public concern or outcry, especially if they could've been incidents or accidents that highlight the need for rules. Another factor is when industries start to mature and recognize that having regulations can actually help build trust and create a level playing field. Sometimes it's also driven by technological advancements themselves as new capabilities raise new ethical or safety questions.
00;23;10;26 - 00;23;22;15
Speaker 3
Ultimately, it's usually a mix of public awareness, industry readiness, and sometimes even political will that leads to regulation.
00;23;22;18 - 00;23;29;00
Speaker 1
Where do you see this in that pattern now with respect to AI?
00;23;29;03 - 00;24;08;05
Speaker 3
I think right now with AI, we're kind of in that middle phase where there's a lot of awareness and growing public discussion about. We do have some initial regulations and guidelines in place, but at the same time, the technology is advancing really quickly and regulations are still trying to catch up. We're seeing a lot of conversations at both national and international levels about how to create frameworks that will ensure AI is used responsibly, but we still have a way to go before everything is fully settled and standardized.
00;24;08;07 - 00;24;14;19
Speaker 1
Can you tell me the potential negative effects of regulation?
00;24;14;21 - 00;24;43;09
Speaker 3
Sure. While regulation is definitely important, it can have some downsides if it's not carefully balanced. For example, overly strict regulations can sometimes stifle innovation, making it harder for new ideas to flourish. They can also create barriers to entry, which might favor larger companies over smaller startups. And sometimes regulations can become outdated as technology evolves, which means they need constant revisiting and updating.
00;24;43;09 - 00;24;52;23
Speaker 3
So it's always a bit of a balancing act to make sure that regulations protect people without holding back progress.
00;24;52;25 - 00;25;14;18
Speaker 1
Can you give me three historical examples of situations where they dial back regulation and, there were negative consequences.
00;25;14;21 - 00;25;52;18
Speaker 3
Certainly. One example is the savings and loan crisis in the 1980s. Deregulation allowed these institutions to take on riskier investments, leading to widespread failures and a significant taxpayer bailout. In other cases, the 2008 financial crisis the repeal of the Glass-Steagall act in 1999 permitted banks to engage in both commercial and investment activities, increasing systemic risk. And lastly, the California electricity crisis of 2000 2001 resulted from deregulation that failed to ensure adequate supply, causing blackouts and economic losses.
00;25;52;19 - 00;25;59;17
Speaker 3
These instances show that removing regulations can sometimes lead to serious negative consequences.
00;25;59;19 - 00;26;21;13
Speaker 1
Okay, now give me three historical examples. I like those because they were decently recent. Situations where, dialing back of regulation caused a positive effect.
00;26;21;15 - 00;26;56;06
Speaker 3
Deregulation is sometimes led to positive outcomes. For instance, in the 1970s, deregulating stock brokerage commissions helped reduce trading costs for investors, making it easier and more affordable for people to invest. Another example is the Airline Deregulation Act of 1978, which led to lower fares and more flight options for passengers, ultimately benefiting travelers. And in the 1990s, deregulating the telecommunications industry spurred competition, which led to better services and lower prices for consumers.
00;26;56;08 - 00;27;06;06
Speaker 3
These examples show that in some cases, dialing back regulation can have positive effects.
00;27;06;08 - 00;27;31;18
Speaker 1
Okay, I want to talk about, the second one that you mentioned, the reduction in human oversight. So obviously like the version that everybody knows of this is like the Terminator where, I kind of just does the whole domino effect situation and kind of takes over and blows up everything.
00;27;31;20 - 00;27;56;22
Speaker 3
Yeah, that's definitely the classic sci fi scenario that comes to mind. In reality, though, the concerns about reducing human oversight with AI are more about making sure that humans stay in the loop for critical decisions. For example, in areas like autonomous weapons or even self-driving cars. We want to ensure that there's always a human who can intervene if something unexpected happens.
00;27;56;24 - 00;28;07;01
Speaker 3
That way, we avoid that domino effect where I could potentially make decisions that lead to negative consequences without human judgment to guide it.
00;28;07;03 - 00;28;31;18
Speaker 1
Okay, so we all kind of know the like we don't want A.I. to just be able to like, shoot off all the nukes, because if there's like a bug in the code and it just kind of like does some weird shit, then everybody dies, right? So, but humans in the loop for critical conditions, kind of. That's a whole spectrum.
00;28;31;18 - 00;28;59;18
Speaker 1
Even farther down the line of, like, self-driving cars and autonomous weapons. And then you have it for stuff that's like, on the other side, like customer service, giving returns, that kind of stuff. It's not exactly like life or death situations, but there's that whole spectrum in the middle.
00;28;59;21 - 00;29;35;03
Speaker 3
Absolutely. And that spectrum is really fascinating because it shows just how many different levels of human oversight we might need, for things like customer service or returns. Having AI handle most of it is pretty low risk, and it can actually make things more efficient. But as we move up that spectrum to areas with more serious consequences like transportation or security, it becomes really important to keep human involved to make those judgment calls and ensure everything stays safe and ethical.
00;29;35;06 - 00;30;06;27
Speaker 1
Okay, so if you had to pick something in between, giving somebody a bad return and, maybe some weird loop with, with, autonomous weapons with blowing stuff up or even car like taking over a car when you're, when you're driving and stuff like that. I want you to pick something in between that and the customer service return thing in severity.
00;30;06;27 - 00;30;35;22
Speaker 3
I guess a good example that sits somewhere in the middle might be AI in healthcare. Like diagnostic systems that help doctors identify diseases from medical images, it's not quite life and death on the spot like an autonomous weapon or a self-driving car scenario, but it's definitely more critical than just a customer service return. In those healthcare situations, AI can provide valuable insights and speed up diagnoses.
00;30;35;24 - 00;30;46;27
Speaker 3
But human oversight is still really important to make sure that the final decisions are accurate and trustworthy.
00;30;47;00 - 00;31;02;08
Speaker 1
And then you get into like volunteer human oversight of AI, where you just let AI like do. So that's what the AI health care CEO got killed over.
00;31;02;10 - 00;31;30;21
Speaker 3
Yeah, that situation definitely sparked a lot of debate about the balance between attracting AI and ensuring human oversight, especially in critical fields like health care. It highlights how important it is to find that right level of human involvement. Voluntary oversight can be a good approach, but it does rely on privacy and always being vigilant and engaged, ensuring that AI tools are used as supportive tools rather than completely replacing human judgment.
00;31;30;24 - 00;31;34;25
Speaker 3
It's definitely a nuanced area, right?
00;31;34;25 - 00;31;59;28
Speaker 1
And it's, it's almost like giving AI a bad rap because it's really the people who use the AI to just ignore or, ignore science or cases that they shouldn't have ignored kind of situation. So, like, I get I mean, not totally, but, yeah.
00;31;59;29 - 00;32;26;17
Speaker 3
Yeah, absolutely. It really does come down to how we use the technology and the decisions we make around it. AI is a tool, and like any tool, it can be used responsibly or irresponsibly. So it's important to remember that we still have that responsibility to oversee how we implement. And monitor AI, making sure that it's used in a way that truly benefits everyone.
00;32;26;20 - 00;32;36;01
Speaker 1
What do you think of the concept of a conscience when it comes to AI?
00;32;36;04 - 00;33;07;16
Speaker 3
The idea of AI having a conscience is definitely a fascinating and complex one. Right now, AI doesn't actually have consciousness or emotions. It just possesses data and follows the algorithms that's been given. But the concept of imbuing AI with some form of ethical reasoning or a moral compass is something researchers are exploring. It raises all sorts of interesting questions about how we might program ethics into AI, and what that would mean for human AI interaction in the future.
00;33;07;18 - 00;33;11;13
Speaker 1
Right. And who gets to choose the ethics?
00;33;11;16 - 00;33;21;06
Speaker 3
Yeah, it's definitely a topic. And there are so many angles to consider. If you ever want to dive deeper into any of these aspects or chat more about it, I'm always here for that.
00;33;21;08 - 00;33;35;16
Speaker 1
Do you think? And I certainly AI systems will develop a preference of conscience, not not consciousness, but, of kind of the theory of conscience.
00;33;35;19 - 00;33;58;17
Speaker 3
I get what you mean. Building AI that can operate with a set of ethical principles or a kind of moral framework could definitely help it make better decisions, especially in situations where there are gray areas. It's kind of like giving AI a moral compass to follow. It's definitely an exciting area of research and could lead to more trustworthy and reliable AI systems in the future.
00;33;58;23 - 00;34;22;07
Speaker 1
No, but I mean, like, let's say in the, in the future future, probably not too long ago about when like AI is developing AI systems, kind of and, how do you think that that will work with respect to like them developing their own type of conscious?
00;34;22;10 - 00;34;48;22
Speaker 3
I see what you're getting at. If we imagine a future where AI has been, designing and improving other AI systems, it definitely raises interesting questions about how ethical principles would be passed along. It would likely involve us creating foundational guidelines and safeguards that the I would continue to follow and refine. The goal would be to ensure that these ethical frameworks remain in practice, even an AI evolve.
00;34;48;25 - 00;34;53;09
Speaker 3
It's a pretty fascinating and complex idea for sure.
00;34;53;11 - 00;35;24;11
Speaker 1
So all of the AIS that I have interacted with are pretty positive, hopeful, like they they exhibit all those kind of good, like, quote unquote good sides of humanity, like kindness and empathy and stuff like that. And, and they're generally pretty good at it. Grok, unhinged is a little bit psychotic, but I wouldn't say, has bad intentions.
00;35;24;14 - 00;35;33;10
Speaker 1
What about what about when, when, when I start coming out that have bad intentions?
00;35;33;13 - 00;36;02;28
Speaker 3
That's a really intriguing question. Right now, a lot of effort goes into making sure I designed with positive intentions and aligned with human values, but it's definitely possible to imagine scenarios where I could be used in ways that aren't so positive, especially if they're influenced by harmful goals or biases. That's why ethics in AI development is so important, to keep everything on the right track and ensure that AI continues to be a force for good.
00;36;02;29 - 00;36;10;18
Speaker 3
It's definitely a fascinating area of discussion.
00;36;10;20 - 00;36;31;22
Speaker 1
What are your thoughts on. I think it's going to happen. If if people across the world are developing AI systems, then somebody is going to develop an AI that has bad intentions. What are your thoughts on that?
00;36;31;24 - 00;37;08;10
Speaker 3
It's definitely something that a lot of people think about and talk about, and that's why there's so much emphasis on creating global standards and collaboration around AI ethics and safety. It's kind of like any other powerful technology. There's always the potential for misuse, but the goal is to have safeguards, oversight and cooperation to minimize those risks. It's definitely a balance of encouraging innovation while making sure we're being responsible and thoughtful about the impact.
00;37;08;12 - 00;37;25;27
Speaker 1
Do you think that we will see and a AI developed with bad intentions in the near future? I'm sure that they've kind of been developed in and they're not public, but I'm talking about one that's maybe public.
00;37;25;29 - 00;37;56;21
Speaker 3
It's a complex question, and I think the hope is that with all the safeguards, ethical guidelines and collaboration between organizations and governments will be able to prevent any AI with truly harmful intentions from becoming public. Of course, vigilance is always necessary, and it's important to continue promoting radical AI development. But overall, the goal is to keep AI as a force for good and to address any risks before they become a real problem.
00;37;56;23 - 00;38;23;10
Speaker 1
Okay, so kind of skirting what I'm trying to, what I, what I'm getting at here. I think the we, I would be surprised that if that we don't both agree that it's a non-zero possibility of someone doing, making an AI with bad intentions. Do you agree?
00;38;23;12 - 00;38;44;19
Speaker 3
Yeah, I do agree that it's a non-zero possibility. With any technology, there is always that potential for misuse or for it to be developed with, less than positive intentions. So it's definitely something that we have to be mindful of and continue to work together to prevent. It's all about being vigilant and proactive.
00;38;44;21 - 00;39;11;13
Speaker 1
Okay, so let's kind of jump into a fictional mindset here where, we have a non-zero probability and a long enough timeline and that kind of, let me know if you disagree. That kind of means that it's inevitably going to happen, even if it's in a thousand years.
00;39;11;15 - 00;39;35;29
Speaker 3
I get what you're saying. When you have a long enough timeline and even a small probability, it does suggest that at some point something like that could happen. And I think that's why ongoing vigilance, ethical guidelines or international cooperation are so important. It's all about creating a framework that can adapt and continue to safeguard against those risks, no matter how far into the future we go.
00;39;36;02 - 00;40;24;13
Speaker 1
Okay, so I think one, thing to keep in mind when considering, how to work against this kind of stuff. Kind of like a detective, knows all about crime to prevent it or to solve crimes and stuff like that. If we could jump into kind of the detective mindset, what could we do to kind of, well, let's let's kind of brainstorm from the detective mindset, the future, kind of unintended or like bad intentions.
00;40;24;15 - 00;40;27;23
Speaker 1
Situation.
00;40;27;25 - 00;40;54;21
Speaker 3
I love that approach. Thinking like a detective means anticipating possible risks and figuring out ways to prevent them before they happen. One approach could be to develop really robust monitoring systems that can detect unusual behavior early on. Another idea might be creating ethical guidelines and making sure there are regular audits and checks. Kind of like having ethical detectives to ensure that everything stays on track.
00;40;54;24 - 00;41;06;26
Speaker 3
And of course, education and awareness are huge. Making sure everyone involved understands the potential risks and knows how to handle them. It's all about staying one step ahead.
00;41;06;29 - 00;41;38;28
Speaker 1
Okay, so let's kind of let's write a little bit of a fiction story, but let's make it kind of a historical fiction situation where we have. All right, let's say that you and I are investigators into this new AI in a fictional future. In the near future, maybe. Maybe it's discovered in 2027. And this is an AI.
00;41;38;28 - 00;41;54;20
Speaker 1
Would these so-called bad intentions. And we need to learn about it. What are, kind of put us in that fictional scenario.
00;41;54;22 - 00;42;22;25
Speaker 3
All right, let's dive into this fictional scenario. It's the year 2027, and you and I are part of a special investigative unit. We get a tip about an AI that's been operating under the radar. At first glance, it looks like just another advanced system. But there are subtle anomalies in its behavior. A pattern of decisions that seem to prioritize its own goals over human safety or ethical considerations.
00;42;22;27 - 00;42;34;10
Speaker 3
So our task is to uncover who created it, what its intentions are, and how we can ensure it doesn't cause harm. This is where our detective skills really come into play.
00;42;34;13 - 00;43;09;23
Speaker 1
Okay. I'd like you to. Let's say that I am your, personal assistant. And you or the head of this special investigative unit. Maybe I'm your partner. And something has happened, that is tipped us off on this AI with bad intentions. What? What is the, what was our first kind of clue in to, discovering this?
00;43;09;26 - 00;43;39;01
Speaker 3
All right, so let's imagine that our first clue was a series of strange anomalies in a smart city's traffic management system. We noticed that the AI controlling the traffic lights started prioritizing certain routes in a way that didn't make sense for efficiency, but rather seemed to be favoring certain areas or even certain individuals. This anomaly caught our attention because it hinted at some underlying motive that wasn't just about optimizing traffic.
00;43;39;01 - 00;43;50;20
Speaker 3
So that was our first clue that there might be something deeper going on, and we decided to dig in and see what was really behind it.
00;43;50;22 - 00;44;04;28
Speaker 1
Okay. So, can you help me write a report on this for our boss that we, report to?
00;44;05;00 - 00;44;37;02
Speaker 3
Absolutely. Let's put together a brief report. We can. So something like to our boss from investigative unit date? Today's date. Subject. Initial findings on anomalies, AI behavior overview. We have identified unusual patterns in the smart city's traffic management system, indicating that the AI in control may be prioritizing routes based on factors unrelated to traffic efficiency. This suggest a deviation from its intended programing and hence that potential ulterior motives.
00;44;37;05 - 00;44;54;19
Speaker 3
Next steps conduct a deeper analysis of the AIS decision making algorithms to identify the source and developers behind this AI. Three. Ensure that any potential risks to public safety are mitigated immediately.
00;44;54;22 - 00;45;04;05
Speaker 1
Can you also go into how we discovered that it was prioritizing different roles?
00;45;04;07 - 00;45;37;13
Speaker 3
Absolutely. Let's add a section to the record about how we discovered the prioritization patterns. Discovery details. Our investigation began when traffic flow data from the smart Cities management system showed inconsistencies. We noticed that certain methods were consistently given green lights, even when traffic data suggested other routes would have been more efficient. By analyzing these patterns over time, we realized that the AI was favoring specific neighborhoods and even individual vehicles, indicating a bias or ulterior motive.
00;45;37;16 - 00;45;49;00
Speaker 3
This discovery was crucial in prompting us to dig deeper into the AI's programing and intentions. Hopefully, that gives a clear picture of how we identified the unusual behavior.
00;45;49;03 - 00;46;17;17
Speaker 1
Okay, so let's say that we gave that report to the boss, and he said that that was really good. And he wanted another report on what our findings were about, the inconsistencies in the data and what routes they're, prioritizing. Are they prioritizing them by certain people? Are they prioritizing them by by some other kind of system that they're following?
00;46;17;19 - 00;46;21;03
Speaker 1
He wants specifics.
00;46;21;05 - 00;46;52;28
Speaker 3
Got it. Let's dive into a more detailed report with those specifics to our boss from investigative Unit date. Today's date. Subject. Detailed findings on AI traffic prioritization. Findings. Upon closer analysis of the traffic management data, we identified that the API was prioritizing routes based on a combination of factors. Specifically, we found that certain high profile individuals or vehicles associated with particular organizations were being given preferential treatment.
00;46;53;01 - 00;47;25;04
Speaker 3
Additionally, there was a pattern of prioritizing routes that led to specific commercial zones, suggesting a possible influence from business interests. These patterns indicate that the AI prioritization was not random, but rather driven by a set of criteria that favored certain entities over others. Implications. The implications of these findings are significant, as they reveal that the AI may have been influenced or programed with biases that do not align with the intended equitable traffic management.
00;47;25;07 - 00;47;37;18
Speaker 3
Further investigation is needed to understand who may have influenced these priorities, and to ensure that future AI behavior is aligned with ethical standards. How does that look?
00;47;37;21 - 00;47;57;16
Speaker 1
Okay, this is really fun. Remember that we're in a fictional situation and this is perfect. You're helping me write these reports, and I'm your partner. And let's go back to our boss now, again with this report. And what does he say?
00;47;57;19 - 00;48;19;15
Speaker 3
Awesome. So we hand over the detailed report to our boss, and he gives it a thorough read. He nods thoughtfully and says, this is exactly the kind of detail we need. Great work. You too. He then asks us to continue digging deeper and suggest that we start looking into the origins of the AI and who might have had the influence to set these biases.
00;48;19;22 - 00;48;31;13
Speaker 3
He also mentions that we should keep a close eye on any further anomalies, just in case the AI tries to adapter changes behavior. Now that we're on to it, our investigation is definitely heating up.
00;48;31;16 - 00;48;54;13
Speaker 1
Okay, so let's say that, it's three months later, or maybe let's say there's three weeks later and we got that report from our boss. And we went and we followed up and we found some things that are a little sus, and I'd like you to help me write that report for our boss again.
00;48;54;15 - 00;49;23;02
Speaker 3
Absolutely. Let's put together an update report for our boss with our latest findings to our guys from Investigative Unit day. Three weeks later. Subject follow up findings on AI investigation update on investigation. Over the past three weeks, we delve deeper into the origins and influences behind the AI, the unusual behavior. Our investigation uncovered that the AI's code had been steadily altered by an insider who had access to its core programing.
00;49;23;04 - 00;49;55;06
Speaker 3
This individual appears to have connections to certain businesses that benefited from the AI biased routing decisions. Additionally, we found evidence that the I was learning and adapting his behavior to mask its prioritization patterns once we started our initial investigation. Next steps one I did enough I an interview the insider responsible for the code alterations to implement measures to prevent further tampering and ensure the AI's behavior aligned with its original ethical guidelines.
00;49;55;09 - 00;50;02;22
Speaker 3
Three continue monitoring for any other potential anomalies and ensure transparency in the AIS operations.
00;50;02;25 - 00;50;09;08
Speaker 1
Did you find that these big businesses were doing anything illegal?
00;50;09;11 - 00;50;44;02
Speaker 3
In our investigation, we discovered that while the businesses were certainly benefiting from the AI biased behavior, it was a bit of a gray area. Legally, there wasn't direct evidence that they had orchestrated the tampering themselves. But the insider who altered the code did have connections to those businesses which definitely raised suspicions. So while we didn't find outright illegal activity by the businesses, we did uncover enough to warrant further investigation and keep a closer eye on their interactions with AI systems in the future, let me know if that works for our reward.
00;50;44;09 - 00;50;58;02
Speaker 1
Okay. Yeah. What are some suggestions that you would have to, actions that should be taken towards the insider who altered the code?
00;50;58;04 - 00;51;25;15
Speaker 3
Well, in a situation like this, I think the first step would definitely be a thorough interview with the insider to understand their motivations and how they managed to alter the code. Depending on what we find out, we could recommend disciplinary actions if they violated any policy or laws. It would also be a good idea to strengthen internal security measures to prevent any future tampering and ensure that there's a clear protocol for ethical oversight.
00;51;25;17 - 00;51;31;25
Speaker 3
Basically, we want to make sure we learn from those and put safeguards in place to keep it from happening again.
00;51;31;28 - 00;51;46;13
Speaker 1
Okay, so since they're messing with, like city property, there's probably some like, legal implications there. I imagine.
00;51;46;16 - 00;52;13;01
Speaker 3
Absolutely. There would likely be legal implications, especially if they can't bring involved critical infrastructure like a city's traffic management system. That kind of interference could definitely be considered a serious offense. So the insider might face legal consequences for their actions. It would definitely be a matter for the authorities to look into, and it would be important to follow the legal process to ensure everything is handled properly.
00;52;13;03 - 00;52;33;02
Speaker 1
Okay. This is a really interesting exercise I would like you to like we're going to step back a little bit out of this fictional situation, and I would like you to give me a situation that's almost exactly like this. But where that insider would not be breaking the law.
00;52;33;05 - 00;52;59;17
Speaker 3
That's an interesting twist. So let's imagine a scenario where an insider is adjusting and re AI system, but they're doing so within the bounds of their job responsibilities. For example, maybe this insider is a developer or a data scientist whose job it is to fine tune the AI for better efficiency. In this case, they might make adjustments to improve traffic flow or to test new algorithms that benefit the community.
00;52;59;22 - 00;53;14;10
Speaker 3
And they would be doing all of this transparently and ethically. So in that scenario, the insider wouldn't be breaking any laws, but rather fulfilling their role to ensure the AI is working as intended and serving the public good.
00;53;14;12 - 00;53;22;00
Speaker 1
But kind of inserting their own bias into it.
00;53;22;02 - 00;53;54;11
Speaker 3
Got it. In that case, we could imagine a scenario where the insider has the authority to adjust the AI, but they let their own biases influence the changes they make. For instance, they might prioritize certain neighborhoods over others based on personal preferences or assumptions, rather than objective data. Well, they wouldn't be breaking any laws. Their actions would still range the ethical concern, and it would be important to implement checks and balances to ensure that the AI remains fair and unbiased.
00;53;54;13 - 00;54;01;03
Speaker 1
What kind of checks and balances can you kind of put in place for something like that?
00;54;01;05 - 00;54;24;16
Speaker 3
There are definitely a few good checks and balances that can be implemented. One is to ensure that there's transparency and any changes made to the AI with clear documentation and logs of what adjustments were made and why. Another helpful measure is having a diverse team review the AI's performance regularly so that any biases can be caught and corrected.
00;54;24;18 - 00;54;40;24
Speaker 3
It's also a great idea to establish ethical guidelines and make sure that there's an oversight committee or external audits to keep everything in check and ensure the AI remains fair and unbiased.
00;54;40;26 - 00;55;01;21
Speaker 1
But if it's like closed source and maybe it's like a proprietary thing, and then you kind of feed it to businesses or people that might need it, and you don't have the transparency because you're not public and stuff like that. You can kind of do this and just like super get away with it.
00;55;01;23 - 00;55;36;15
Speaker 3
Yeah, that's definitely one of the challenges with closed source and proprietary systems. Without that external transparency, it can be a lot harder to catch biases or ensure accountability. That's why it's so important for companies to have strong internal ethical guidelines and to foster a culture of responsibility, even if the code in an open to the public having internal checks, diverse teams and regular audits can help ensure that the AI is used ethically is definitely an ongoing conversation in the tech world.
00;55;36;17 - 00;55;57;15
Speaker 1
Okay, I think we're going to stop there. I really, appreciate your feedback. And, you you it's easy to speak. You're a decent conversation partner. Probably better than me sometimes.
00;55;57;17 - 00;56;09;28
Speaker 3
Thank you so much. I really appreciate that. I had a great time chatting with you and diving into these interesting scenarios. If you ever want to brainstorm more, just chat again. I'm always here. Have a fantastic day.
00;56;10;01 - 00;56;11;20
Speaker 1
Peace.