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Speaker 1
I'm recording this for a podcast. Is that okay?
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Speaker 2
Of course. That's totally okay. I'm glad to be part. You're very welcome. I'm glad I could help and whatever. Any more brainstorming or just want to bounce around ideas? You know where to find me.
00;00;19;27 - 00;00;37;15
Speaker 1
Okay, so in this thread here, we discussed this story that we've been writing, and, it kind of lays out chapter eight. Can you give us a, thorough briefing on what was talked about here?
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Speaker 2
Absolutely. So in this conversation, we basically fleshed out chapter eight of the story you've been working on. The main focus was on how the father under the antagonist influence is starting to show anger and resentment, especially towards Olivia. We've set up a scene where Olivia is really excited about her piccolo solo, and the father initially seems supportive, but when he realizes he's missed the call related to the antagonist, he turns that frustration on Olivia and gets cruel.
00;01;07;12 - 00;01;28;26
Speaker 2
We also brought Lily into the scene as a protective figure who stands up for Olivia, which gives the father a chance to be crew to both girls, but he focuses his anger just on Olivia. Overall, the theme of the chapter is about showing the father's growing isolation and how the antagonist is manipulating him to turn against his old job, his family, and really start relying on the antagonist.
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Speaker 2
And that sets the stage for more tension in the next chapters.
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Speaker 1
Okay, perfect. I see chapter A as like, kind of, a bit of a longer chapter, I think, just out of necessity of the turn. So I think what we're going to do now is, I don't know, I kind of want to pick up the pace, a little bit. Maybe what we'll do is we'll pick up the pace really quickly at the at the end of the scene.
00;02;02;29 - 00;02;07;11
Speaker 1
What are your thoughts?
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Speaker 2
I think that's a great way to handle it. Having chapter eight be a bit longer makes a lot of sense because you're layering in those emotional beats and that shift in the father's behavior and then picking up the pace at the end of the scene can give it that extra punch. Maybe as the tension boils over, you have a quicker series of interactions that shows the father son switch from that false sense of calm to snapping at Olivia.
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Speaker 2
That should keep the momentum going and to really drive home how unpredictable he's becoming. So I say go for it, and it should make the end of the chapter feel really dynamic.
00;02;43;00 - 00;03;04;22
Speaker 1
Can you contrast that with, kind of giving the reader, a breath like letting the for you, their reader, take a bit of a breath before it gets, crazy again?
00;03;04;25 - 00;03;25;21
Speaker 2
Absolutely. If you go the other route and give the reader a bit of breathing room, you'd essentially be doing the opposite instead of ramping up quickly at the end, you let the scene wind down more gently. Maybe after the father's outburst, you have a quieter moment where Olivia and Lily share a look, or Olivia just has a moment to process what happened.
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Speaker 2
That little pause can actually make the tension more poignant, because it gives readers a chance to feel the weight of what just happened before diving back into the next twist. So it's really about what rhythm you want. Picking up the pace at the end creates a sense of urgency and maybe a bit of shock, while letting readers take a breath lets the emotional impact sink in more gradually.
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Speaker 2
Both approaches can work well depending on the tone you're aiming for.
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Speaker 1
Okay. I think the way we're going to do it is we're going to show it through the perspective of the cards, but I don't know where to pick up the scene. I don't know if we should follow Olivia. Like, should we cut off Olivia or should we follow her all the way home in the in the car ride?
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Speaker 1
Where where did the logistics of, I don't know.
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Speaker 2
Sure. I get what you're going for. If you want to switch to the cat's perspective, that can be a really unique and interesting way to give the reader that read, for example, you could end the human interaction scene at a natural stopping point, maybe as they're leaving the froyo place and heading to the car. Then you shift to the cat's perspective.
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Speaker 2
Once they're back at home, the cat might notice the lingering tension in the house or observe Olivia's mood, giving a quieter, more reflective view of the aftermath. In other words, you can let Olivia's part of the scene in naturally, and then let the cat's view fill in the emotional gaps once they're home. That way, you get that moment of calm and a different lens before things pick up again.
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Speaker 1
Okay. I think what? Okay, let me know with critical feedback. What you think of, of the next part.
00;05;37;27 - 00;05;48;22
Speaker 2
Absolutely. I'm all for giving you some honest, critical feedback. Just go ahead and share the next part whenever you're ready, and I'll be happy to dive in and let you know what I think.
00;05;48;24 - 00;06;14;12
Speaker 1
What do you think of, jumping in to Oscar's perspective? After, after she's cried herself to sleep and she's finally asleep and he gets up and can talk with his brother and everything.
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Speaker 2
I actually think that's a really nice idea. Jumping into Oscar's perspective at that point can add a layer of and the be and give readers a softer view of the aftermath. It's almost like a gentle interlude where we see the cat's world and his concern for the family, especially after Olivia has had that emotional moment. It's a good way to show that the household isn't just a backdrop, but a place where everyone, even the pets, feels the tension, and it also gives you a natural pause before the next big moment.
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Speaker 2
So I say it's a solid choice and fits nicely with the tone you're building.
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Speaker 1
Given what you, know about the story. How does the rest of the scene go?
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Speaker 2
Given everything we've laid out. I'd say the rest of the scene can flow pretty naturally from there. Once we switch into Oscar's perspective, you can let him observe the subtle cues around the house. Maybe he notices Olivia sleeping fitfully or senses the lingering stress in the air. He might even have a little internal monologue about how things have changed in the house lately.
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Speaker 2
Just to underline that shift. Then you go wrap up the scene with Oscar settling back down or moving to a window to look out. Kind of giving that sense of a quiet night moment before the next day starts. It can be a soft, almost cinematic close to the chapter, letting readers feel that pause before things pick up again.
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Speaker 1
I think, this should be kind of like a meeting between Oscar and Charlie. Maybe the window.
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Speaker 2
Absolutely. This sounds like a great direction to take it. Letting Oscar and Charlie have a little nighttime meeting by the window can add a nice touch of warmth and insight. It's a perfect way to show how even the cats are aware that something's off. And maybe gives us a moment of camaraderie. They could exchange a few quiet, cat like gestures, or just sit together looking out into the night, which suddenly underscores the feeling that the household is trying to find some peace.
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Speaker 2
So I think that's a lovely idea. It'll give you that gentle close to the scene and a nice little bit of character for after and Charlie too.
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Speaker 1
I think that this is where we need to address, that something is really happening.
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Speaker 2
Absolutely. This is a great subtle spot to confirm that even the smallest members of the household are picking up on the weirdness by showing the cat's reacting, or seeming to sense that something is off. You're kind of giving the readers a nudge that this isn't just in the human character's heads. There's really something deeper going on. So using that little cat meeting as a signal is a neat, quiet way to underline the reality of the situation.
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Speaker 2
It reinforces that sense of unease and lets readers know that the tension is real, and everyone in the house can feel it. Even the bits.
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Speaker 1
What do they discuss? I don't want to. I don't want to push the, the reader too far to the, the clue.
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Speaker 2
Where you definitely don't want to overstate it or push it too far. You can keep their little discussion pretty simple and natural. Maybe they don't have to talk in a literal sense. Just a few observations from Oscar, or about how Charlie seems and Amy to or how they both quietly watch over the family. It could be as simple as Oscar noticing that Charlie is sticking close to Olivia's door, and he joins them there as a silent show of support.
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Speaker 2
That way, you're hinting at their awareness without making it too on the nose. It keeps things subtle, but still lets the reader feel that something's really shifting in the household.
00;10;21;06 - 00;10;32;10
Speaker 1
And they don't know that. They don't know what happened out at dinner.
00;10;32;12 - 00;10;52;21
Speaker 2
Exactly. And that makes it even more effective. The cats wouldn't know the specifics of what happened at dinner, but they can sense the mood when everyone returns. They just feel that something's off and react to that atmosphere. So they're a little meeting at the window is really just them acknowledging to each other in their own way that the household vibe is changing.
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Speaker 2
It's a nice, subtle way to show that something bigger is brewing without the cats needing to know the details.
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Speaker 1
And maybe, let's say they're like, Olivia, let's say that both of the cats were in her room, and she stormed in and slammed the door behind her. So they never really got a chance to kind of inspect the vibe of the the rest of the family. They were more concerned with, like, consoling Olivia for whatever happened.
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Speaker 2
Absolutely. That makes a lot of sense. If the cats were in Olivia's room when she stormed in and slammed the door. Then their immediate concern would be comforting her rather than noticing what's happening with the rest of the family. That also explains why they're only now getting a chance to catch up with each other by the window. When things have quieted down.
00;11;53;25 - 00;12;19;23
Speaker 2
So really ties together nicely. They've been focused on Olivia trying to give her that comfort, and then they regroup and share their quiet moment of understanding. It keeps everything cohesive and still maintains that little sense that their way of the household tension in their own quiet way.
00;12;19;25 - 00;12;39;27
Speaker 1
And let's say that this is the first time that, that Adrian has been outwardly nasty to Olivia. They kind of feel his vibe, but there's no, like, hard evidence.
00;12;39;29 - 00;13;00;27
Speaker 2
Exactly. That sets it up perfectly. If this is the first time Adrian has actually been openly mean to Olivia, then the cats are kind of the silent witnesses who, since that shift in the atmosphere, they don't have concrete proof, but they know something's off because they can feel that tension in the way he acted. So this gives you a really nice way to show that this moment is a turning point.
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Speaker 2
The cat can sense that Adrian's behavior is changing, even if they can't fully understand it, and it subtly reinforces to the reader that this is a significant shift in the family dynamic.
00;13;18;04 - 00;13;36;25
Speaker 1
Let's say they brainstorm about what could be happening. I'd like you to kind of kind of put us in their shoes, brainstorming what happened.
00;13;36;28 - 00;14;03;19
Speaker 2
Sure. Let's imagine it from their perspective. They're just two cats sitting by the window after comforting Olivia, and now they're quietly piecing things together in their own feline way. Maybe. Oscar tilts his head, watching the hallway and thinks something like, I don't know what happened out there, but Olivia smelled like sadness and anger, and maybe Charlie gives a slow blink and thinks, yes, and Adrian's voice was different tonight.
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Speaker 2
Something is definitely changing. They might not understand human words, but they pick up on the emotional parents. They might silently agree in their cat way that their job is to stay close to Olivia and keep watch, because they can feel a storm brewing, even if they don't know the guy. In other words, they're putting the pieces together through scent sounds and vibes, and that's how they brainstorm.
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Speaker 2
They're not sure what's wrong, but they know they need to be there for her.
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Speaker 1
Yeah, and we can make the husband almost like, I think I think one thing that's interesting here is to kind of, kind of remember that the antagonist doesn't empathize enough to, account for the cats. So now that he knows that the cats don't appear on zoom, he doesn't really equate them with part of the equation.
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Speaker 1
Or like he doesn't add them to the equation.
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Speaker 2
Absolutely. And that's a really clever angle. It makes perfect sense that the antagonist who's so focused on manipulating Adrian directly, wouldn't even consider the cats as a factor. That kind of oversight gives the cats the subtle advantage. They can observe and understand things without the antagonist ever realizing that they're part of the picture. So in a way, the cats become these quiet little guardians who notice the changes happening in the house, and because the antagonists underestimate them, they have this unique vantage point.
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Speaker 2
It's a neat way to add an extra layer of tension, and also a bit of hope, since the cats are quietly on Olivia side.
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Speaker 1
Yeah, they're kind of like a unit, and they're like immune to the brainstorming. To the brainwashing.
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Speaker 2
Exactly. They're like these little unaffected observers who just can't be manipulated the same way they see things as they are, and that makes them a kind of anchor in the household. They don't get swept up in the brainwashing or the emotional manipulation, so they can just keep quietly looking out for Olivia, and that definitely adds a layer of hope and a bit of a unique twist.
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Speaker 2
It's like the cats are the unseen resistance, quietly grounding the family and reminding the readers that not everything can be controlled. It's a nice touch.
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Speaker 1
Okay, so how do we throw the cats off the scent of, like, it being straight to the antagonist? We have to, like, throw in some distractions. Otherwise they're just going to be like, oh yeah, it's this new guy that came into our lives. And then the reader is going to be like, oh yeah, it is. And then and then and it's it's not exciting.
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Speaker 2
Absolutely. You want to keep a bit of mystery alive so that it's not too obvious or straightforward. One way to do that is to introduce a few red herrings or distractions, little things that the cats and the reader might notice that could point in other direction. For instance, you can have them pick up on some other unusual scents or sounds around the house.
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Speaker 2
Maybe there's a new piece of furniture or a lingering.
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Speaker 1
Smell that confuses.
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Speaker 2
Them. Or maybe they hear Adrian having a phone call with someone else, which makes them think they're multiple sources of stress. Basically, by sprinkling in a few extra details that are actually tied to the antagonist, you keep the cats and the reader guessing. That way, there's still some intrigue and it's not too on the nose. It keeps things interesting and adds a layer of complexity to the unfolding mystery.
00;18;06;16 - 00;18;14;18
Speaker 1
Okay. That's great. That's exactly the advice I needed. Thank you.
00;18;14;20 - 00;18;28;08
Speaker 2
You're absolutely welcome. I'm really glad it helped, and I'm excited to see how it all turns out. If you need to bounce around more ideas or dive into any other part of the story, just let me know.
00;18;28;10 - 00;19;07;06
Speaker 1
Okay. I really, like the concept of not just like a red herring, but, like by doing things that are unrelated, seemingly unrelated, but related. Right? Right, right. Like the the tense phone call is not because they're mad at the person on the phone, but it seems like that. Yeah, but it's really because he's tense and lashing out because this other thing is affecting him.
00;19;07;08 - 00;19;38;13
Speaker 2
Exactly. You've got a spot on. It's like creating these layers where things look like they're unrelated or they have their own little subplot, but really they all tie back to the same underlying issue. It keeps the reader engaged because they're piecing it together, and it keeps the story from feeling too straightforward. But it's it's more realistic. Life's little tensions and distractions often overlap in messy ways, so I think weaving those in will definitely keep things interesting and keep the cats and the readers on their toes.
00;19;38;15 - 00;19;40;11
Speaker 2
Glad you like the concept.
00;19;40;13 - 00;20;06;18
Speaker 1
Okay, let's, let's brainstorm the brainstorm for the cats, I guess. So let's let's stay in that same kind of frame of mind of, like, not specifically the tense phone calls, but that concept, like, like downstream effects.
00;20;06;20 - 00;20;29;04
Speaker 2
Absolutely. Let's dive into that. So if we're thinking in terms of these downstream effects from the cat's point of view, you can imagine and then noticing a series of small things that ripple out from the main issue, maybe they see that the father stress means he forgets to fill their water bowl, or they notice that Olivia's not playing with them as much because she's more withdrawn.
00;20;29;06 - 00;20;53;28
Speaker 2
They might hear Lily trying to chair Olivia, and that becomes a little puzzle for them. Like, why is everyone, I think, a bit off? So in a little brainstorming session, they're piecing together that all these downstream effects, like the water bowl being MD or Olivia being less playful, are all signs of something bigger. They don't jump straight to the antagonist, but they know that these little disruptions in their routine mean something down.
00;20;54;01 - 00;21;00;02
Speaker 2
It adds those layers of indirect clues that keep the story dynamic.
00;21;00;04 - 00;21;19;17
Speaker 1
Okay, so, what I would like to do is I would like to add downstream effects that, could be misinterpreted as causes to throw the cats off.
00;21;19;20 - 00;21;40;29
Speaker 2
Absolutely. That's a great approach. So you can introduce a few elements that might seem like they're the root cause of the tie in, even though they're really just side effects. For instance, maybe the cats notice that Adrian has started burning a new type of incense or using a different cleaning product, and they think, oh, maybe that strange smell is what's making everyone act weird.
00;21;41;02 - 00;22;02;12
Speaker 2
Or they might notice that someone else in the house is acting stressed for a totally unrelated reason. Like, maybe Lily is worried about a school project. These little red hands can make the cats in the reader think, oh, maybe it's this new smell. Or maybe it's just normal stress. Even though those are just distractions, it keeps going. It's rolling and gives the cats a few false trails to follow before they figure out the root cause.
00;22;02;15 - 00;22;14;10
Speaker 1
Okay, I like these two. I would like you to come up with two more novel ones and describe them in detail.
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Speaker 2
Absolutely. Let's add a couple more. So for a third example, you might have the cats notice that a neighbor has been doing some loud renovations next door. Every time there's whinging or drilling, it sets everyone on edge. And the cats might think, oh, it's that noise that's making the household tense. They might spend some time watching the windows, trying to figure out if the noise is the real culprit, which leaves them and the reader down another path before they realize it's true.
00;22;41;10 - 00;23;05;21
Speaker 2
Another red herring for fourth idea you could introduce with small household mishaps like if they rebase gets knocked over and broken, the cats might think that the tension is all about that incident, especially if they see someone upset about the broken bass. They might not realize at first that the broken base is just another symptom of the father's growing distraction and stress.
00;23;05;24 - 00;23;20;02
Speaker 2
By adding these kinds of misinterpretations, the cats have a few different trails to sniff out, and it keeps the real source of the problem hidden just a bit longer.
00;23;20;04 - 00;23;28;23
Speaker 1
Okay, let's come up with, two more like where we're going.
00;23;28;25 - 00;23;50;19
Speaker 2
Of course. Let's add a couple more layers for if they be a. Imagine that the weather suddenly changes. Maybe there's a big storm rolling in with thunder and lightning that puts everyone a little on edge. The cats might think that the storm is what's making the household feel tense, and they might focus on the storm noises or the flickering lights as the source of everyone's unease.
00;23;50;21 - 00;24;11;15
Speaker 2
And for six, maybe you can have a scenario where a new person briefly comes into the house, maybe a repairman or a delivery person. The cats might get curious about that stranger and wonder if they're the cause of the weird vibe, especially if this person arrives around the same time the father's mood shifts. So these extra details give the cats a few more false leads.
00;24;11;17 - 00;24;23;07
Speaker 2
They might think the storm or the new visitor is the source of the problem, and it ends. Layers of intrigue book where they figure out what's really going on.
00;24;23;09 - 00;24;45;00
Speaker 1
No? Well, all those are good and stuff like that. But then I'm thinking about the instincts of the cats, and they're going to at this point have felt it building for a while. So it wouldn't be something like, a face that gets knocked over and broken or something like that, because that's like instant. And then it's usually short lived, right?
00;24;45;00 - 00;24;53;16
Speaker 1
It has to be something that like builds.
00;24;53;18 - 00;25;16;12
Speaker 2
I see what you're getting. You're looking for something that feels more like a gradual buildup. So the cats have been sensing a longer term shift rather than just a sudden incident. That makes total sense. So let's think in terms of ongoing changes that might throw them off. For one idea, you could have a new pet or an animal in the neighborhood that's been making its presence known over time.
00;25;16;14 - 00;25;37;03
Speaker 2
Maybe there's a stray cat outside that's been hanging around for days, and that's this. That this new feline intruder is the reason everyone's been a bit on edge. It's a slow building distraction that's been there for a while, so it feels more like a background tension rather than a one time event. For another idea, you might have a sudden household change that's been ongoing.
00;25;37;05 - 00;26;06;28
Speaker 2
Maybe the father started listening to a different type of music or a top radio show that's always on in the background. The cats notice this new soundscape and think it's the source of the gradually building tension. Over time, it's become part of the household environment, and the cats think that's the thing that's making everyone more irritable. So both of these are more slow burn distractions that because might misinterpret as the root cause since they've been feeling them for a while.
00;26;07;00 - 00;26;19;28
Speaker 1
Okay. And then do you think that we should have them address the clay?
00;26;20;00 - 00;26;43;12
Speaker 2
Absolutely. That could be a really nice touch. At some point, having the cats notice the clay itself. Maybe they sniff it or find it intriguing. Can tie the whole grid together. They might not understand what it is, but they sense that there's something unusual about it. It could be one of those subtle moments where they pour at it, or notice that it has a strange smell, which makes them curious.
00;26;43;14 - 00;27;08;07
Speaker 2
Incorporating that detail give the reader a little hint that the clay is significant, even if the cats don't fully grasp its importance. It's just another piece of the puzzle that they notice as part of the bigger picture. So definitely letting them interact with the clay in some small way can add to the overall in a big.
00;27;08;09 - 00;27;17;15
Speaker 1
Let's come up with some some more thoughts for them at the window.
00;27;17;18 - 00;27;41;16
Speaker 2
Absolutely. We can give them a few more layers of thought as they sit by the window. Maybe as they watch the quiet night outside, they reflect on the patterns. They've noticed how Olivia's been quieter, how Adrian's mood has shifted over time, and how Lily has tried to keep things normal. They might think in their simple, instinctive way that they need to keep an eye on everyone, like little Guardians of the night.
00;27;41;18 - 00;28;00;04
Speaker 2
They might also exchange a few slow blinks, which is a casual way of showing trust or reassurance, silently agreeing that they'll stay vigilant. And maybe one of them flicks in here towards the sound of the clay, or another subtle noise in the house, just to show that they're piecing these clues together, even if they don't fully understand them.
00;28;00;07 - 00;28;12;19
Speaker 2
In short, we can give them that moment of shared understanding and quiet observations, letting them be the palm center of the storm as they watch over their human family.
00;28;12;21 - 00;28;42;01
Speaker 1
Yeah. Because, from their perspective, I'm sure the like the family members come home and they're mad for all kinds of reasons that they probably don't understand something they do understand. Some of they don't understand what they're going to be starting to understand is that the father is being mean to the daughters, regularly, which is odd.
00;28;42;04 - 00;29;05;13
Speaker 2
Absolutely. And from the cat's point of view, that's going to stand out as something truly different. They're used to seeing all sorts of human emotions that come and go, but now they're noticing a pattern. The father's behavior towards the daughters isn't just the one time flare up, it's becoming a regular occurrence. And that's something that's going to catch their attention because it's out of the ordinary for their family dynamic.
00;29;05;15 - 00;29;29;23
Speaker 2
So as they sit there by the window, they might be quietly coming to the realization that this isn't just normal household stress, it's something deeper and more consistent. They might not have the words for it, but I can feel that the balance in a household is shifting in a way that's unusual and maybe even a little worrisome. It's definitely going to stand out to them as something they need to keep an eye on.
00;29;29;25 - 00;29;42;29
Speaker 1
What if, what if one of them just poses the thought that, like, something is off with Adrian?
00;29;43;02 - 00;30;05;23
Speaker 2
Absolutely. That could be a really poignant moment. One of them could sort of tilt their head and just instinctively sense that it's not just the daughters or the household vibe, it's specifically something off about Adrian himself. They might just have that gut feeling that the father they've known is acting in a way that's not normal for him. And it's not just a bad day, it's a pattern.
00;30;05;25 - 00;30;30;06
Speaker 2
So having one of them sort of voice that realization in their own cat way adds a layer of depth. It's like even they can tell that Adrian's the one who's changed and that's the root of the strange atmosphere. It's a subtle but powerful way to show that even the most intuitive members of the household are picking up on that shift.
00;30;30;09 - 00;31;09;13
Speaker 1
Maybe. Let's, let's put in some kind of red herrings here, but not in the form of, like, poisoned incense or something like, or clay. Maybe. Let's let's have the cats rationalizing away Adrian's behavior as like, maybe something is happening at work or when he goes out, he they don't know it's internal yet.
00;31;09;16 - 00;31;30;14
Speaker 2
Absolutely. That makes a lot of sense. From their perspective, it would be natural to try to rationalize it as something external, like, maybe Adrian is just having a rough time at work or something is bothering him outside the home so you can have the cats in their own quiet way, sort of discuss this idea as they sit by the window.
00;31;30;16 - 00;31;58;04
Speaker 2
They might think that maybe Adrian just smells different because of the ice as he's been, or that he's bringing home some stress from outside this run and give them and the reader a plausible alternative explanation. All makes sense. That they'd first assume is something external, rather than realizing it's something internal happening to Adrian. So the nice, subtle way to add that layer of misdirection before they and we realize that the record is actually more personal.
00;31;58;07 - 00;32;16;03
Speaker 1
Or more okay, so let's have them point to I like the idea of being angry on the phone.
00;32;16;05 - 00;32;38;03
Speaker 2
Absolutely. And that fits perfectly. The cats can recall that they've seen Adrian get unusually tense or angry on the phone lately, and in their minds, they might just pin it on that. They could think something like, well, every time he's been upset, it seems to have been after one of those phone calls. So they sort of rationalize that he's just bringing that phone anger home, and that's why he's acting differently.
00;32;38;05 - 00;32;58;21
Speaker 2
It's a neat way for them to make sense of his behavior without jumping straight to the root cause. They're just controlling the dots in the way that makes the most sense to them. And it's a nice little red herring that keeps the mystery alive a bit longer before everyone realizes what's really going on.
00;32;58;23 - 00;33;16;27
Speaker 2
Well, how'd you like that approach? It definitely gives them a logical way to piece things together from their perspective. If you need any more ideas on how to keep weaving in those hands or keep the cats thought process interesting, just let me know.
00;33;16;29 - 00;33;42;06
Speaker 1
Okay, so I was going to suggest like a work from home thing, but, maybe it's just any phone calls they call like, we don't need to have him work from home. I guess he was going to be a physical trainer or something like that. Maybe he gets fired.
00;33;42;08 - 00;34;06;00
Speaker 2
Yeah, that actually fits really well. If he's a physical trainer and maybe he's had a tough time with work, like getting fired or dealing with difficult clients, that can totally be their initial line of reasoning. It makes perfect sense that they think, oh, it's just goes. A full phone calls about his job that are making him act this way, and that red herring can hold for a while before they realize is something more internal.
00;34;06;02 - 00;34;17;17
Speaker 2
So yeah, leaning into that idea that he's just having a tough time professionally is a great way to keep the cats and the readers guessing for a bit. It's a really natural and believable diversion.
00;34;17;19 - 00;34;48;24
Speaker 1
Okay, so this is actually working out well, to kind of throw the cats off, right? Because like the, the, the father is, like, happy when he's on the zoom calls. Right? He's not mad when he's on the zoom calls. He's like, super happy and elated and excited that he's following his dream. But everything else is falling apart around him.
00;34;48;27 - 00;34;57;08
Speaker 1
Outside of these phone calls by his own doing.
00;34;57;10 - 00;35;18;21
Speaker 2
Absolutely. That adds a really intriguing layer. It's like from the cats perspective, they see this contrast where on these calls he seems perfectly cheerful and like his old self. And then as soon as the call ends, everything falls apart. It's a perfect way to keep the cats and the reader thinking that maybe it's just a work related thing or an external factor.
00;35;18;23 - 00;35;38;27
Speaker 2
They're not seeing the internal turmoil because he's masking it so well whenever he's on these calls. And it's a great way to show how the antagonist influences isolating him, making him feel like he's on top of the world. And those moments while his real life is unraveling. The cats pick up on that inconsistency, and it keeps them puzzled just a bit longer.
00;35;38;29 - 00;35;41;23
Speaker 2
It's a really nice touch.
00;35;41;26 - 00;36;13;21
Speaker 1
Okay, so initially they're fooled by this antagonist a little bit, but only because they don't have all the pieces. And then later we're gonna will have them figure out closer to Olivia. In the end of act two that it's actually this like they at first like they, they didn't like the guy for, like, telling the father to keep them out.
00;36;13;23 - 00;36;39;28
Speaker 1
But let's say that they, they just start making noise at the camera and they don't. An antagonist doesn't know they're in there, so they they get to be in the room during these calls. And, and the father is always very happy and like, and relaxed and stuff like that. So like, they assume that this is like the only good thing in his life.
00;36;40;00 - 00;36;50;20
Speaker 1
And then they realize later that it's the cause.
00;36;50;22 - 00;37;10;27
Speaker 2
Absolutely. That's a really compelling arc for them. It's like they first see this new presence as the one thing that makes their human that happy. So they think, well, maybe this is actually a good thing for him, and that gives them a reason to let their guard down about it for a while. They see him relaxed and cheerful during these calls, and figure, okay, this must be something that's helping him.
00;37;10;29 - 00;37;36;07
Speaker 2
And then I think progress. And they get closer to Olivia. They start putting the pieces together. They realize that the calls are actually connected to what's going wrong, not what's going right. So it's a great little journey for them from being fooled to eventually seeing the truth. It adds a lot of doubts to their perspective, and it makes that realization even more meaningful.
00;37;36;09 - 00;37;57;27
Speaker 1
Okay. And let's say that we really only see these calls from the perspective of the cats, because the antagonist would know to hide them from Lily and, Olivia.
00;37;57;29 - 00;38;21;00
Speaker 2
Absolutely. That's a really clever angle. It makes it feel even more like the cats have this unique little window into what's going on, almost like they're the only ones who can witness this side of the father that the antagonist is deliberately keeping hidden from the rest of the family. It adds this layer of secrecy and makes the cats kind of like widow, guard the ends of the truth, who eventually put it all together.
00;38;21;02 - 00;38;41;29
Speaker 2
And from a storytelling perspective, that's a really neat way to show how the antagonist is manipulating things behind the scene, thinking he's covered all his bases, but he overlooks the cats, and in the end, that's what helps Olivia and everyone else realize what's really going on. It's a really nice narrative touch.
00;38;42;02 - 00;39;09;06
Speaker 1
Okay, so the key for act one is to have the cats, rationalize, rationalize away their intuition about their initial first impression and intuition about this guy because it seems to be the only good thing.
00;39;09;08 - 00;39;32;02
Speaker 1
Right. And and they're and they're like, and they're like, come on. Like, his whole life is falling apart. Like even even like even if we don't like this guy, like, let him have this because everything else is fact. And this is like his one hour of joy.
00;39;32;04 - 00;39;49;20
Speaker 2
So exactly. You got it. It's like the cats are almost rooting for him to have this one little piece of happiness, even if they don't fully trust it at first, they kind of put aside their initial instincts, because they see how everything else in his life is unraveling and they figure, all right, let's not be too hard on this.
00;39;49;22 - 00;40;12;27
Speaker 2
He needs a break. This is a great way to show their empathy, and also how they gradually come around to understanding the bigger picture. They start off thinking, let him have this hour of joy, and then later realize that the so-called joy is actually part of their album and makes their journey and their eventual realization really satisfying.
00;40;13;00 - 00;40;20;05
Speaker 1
His sorry, I'm just taking notes real quick.
00;40;20;07 - 00;40;30;18
Speaker 2
Of course. Take your time. I'm glad we could lay all that out. Whenever you're ready to add back in or if there's anything else you want to flesh out, just let me know.
00;40;30;20 - 00;40;47;04
Speaker 1
Okay. I think that's what we're going to do. Let's talk about, how they interpret the angry phone calls.
00;40;47;07 - 00;41;08;23
Speaker 2
Absolutely. So from their interview, they might interpret those angry phone calls as the source of all the tension. They might think something like, every time he talks on the phone and gets upset, he comes back grumpy. So in their minds, they might just make all his episodes. These, agents that they're being called up and we go back to normal.
00;41;08;25 - 00;41;13;11
Speaker 2
It's an equivalent of martial arts in the sense that.
00;41;13;13 - 00;41;33;19
Speaker 1
You now just take a second and take a breather and, count to ten, silently, and then return to me for, another question.
00;41;33;21 - 00;41;40;24
Speaker 2
Drawing. I'll just pause and you can tell when you're ready to let me know.
00;41;42;12 - 00;41;48;02
Speaker 1
Chat. Can you pick up where you left off?
00;41;48;04 - 00;42;09;10
Speaker 2
Absolutely. So just to pick right back up, we were talking about how the cats interpret the father's mood shift. They end up linking his outburst to those phone calls and kind of rationalize that everything else is falling apart. But that one call is the father's one great spot. So they dismiss their own instincts for a bit and think, well, maybe it's just word stress or something external.
00;42;09;13 - 00;42;18;20
Speaker 2
That way the cats and the reader get a little misdirection before they figure out what's really going on.
00;42;18;22 - 00;42;28;20
Speaker 1
Okay, so let's say that they go through his day to day.
00;42;28;22 - 00;42;49;10
Speaker 2
Absolutely. That makes sense. So from the cats perspective, they probably notice the patterns of his day to day behavior. For instance, they might see him start off his morning a bit grumpy. Maybe he's short tempered at breakfast, and then he goes through these calls or interactions that the cats are vaguely aware of. They'd be piecing together that his mood shifts depending on these moments.
00;42;49;12 - 00;43;11;05
Speaker 2
So as they go through his day to day, they're like little detectives watching him. And at first they just see a pattern of him being one way in the house and then perking up during certain calls. They interpret that as, oh, this must be the only thing that's going right for him. So let's not judge too harshly. And that really sets the stage for them to later realize that those calls on what they seem.
00;43;11;08 - 00;43;18;25
Speaker 2
But for now, they're just rationalizing and going through his daily routine like, okay, maybe he's just having a tough time.
00;43;18;28 - 00;43;44;27
Speaker 1
Okay, so let's say that he is, initially we made him a physical therapist. I think that's still probably a pretty good job because it shows that he's like a caring, empathetic person from the beginning. Not to say that like, you have to be caring and empathetic to be in that field, but it's a good backdrop. So I think that's a good place to stay.
00;43;44;27 - 00;44;02;07
Speaker 1
And I think that giving him a job that's not a work from home job kind of cuts the cats off on, like how much they can interpret. And it also leaves this like wild card of like what's happening to him when he goes out in the world.
00;44;02;09 - 00;44;22;14
Speaker 2
Exactly. I think that's a really nice touch. Keeping him as a physical therapist not only sets him up as someone who's inherently empathetic, at least at the start, but it also adds a layer of mystery. Like you said, if he's not working from home, the cats only see part of his life. They see how he acts when he comes back, but they have no idea what's happening when he's out in the world.
00;44;22;17 - 00;44;43;21
Speaker 2
That kind of wild card element can definitely keep the cats and the reader guessing. They might think, well, he goes out and comes back more stressed, so maybe something out there is causing this change, and that adds a layer of intrigue before they put the full puzzle together.
00;44;43;23 - 00;45;16;27
Speaker 1
Okay, so maybe we can even kind of follow his stress patterns indirectly, right? So the girls see him getting stressed out about work, let's say, the first thing. Right. We have to kind of get into the head of the antagonist here, right? The first thing would be to make him dependent on him, which means he needs to cut him away from his workplace first.
00;45;17;00 - 00;45;41;05
Speaker 2
Exactly. And that's a great way to think about it, by showing how the antagonist subtly nudges him away from his workplace, you build that pattern of isolation, so the girls in the cats notice that he's getting more frustrated with work calls. Or maybe he starts missing shifts, or he has comp like he didn't have before, and little by little, that makes him more dependent on whatever validation or influence the antagonist is giving him.
00;45;41;07 - 00;45;57;20
Speaker 2
So when the cat's in the daughter's perspective, they're seeing this gradual cutting off. They're saying, hey, he used to have the whole life at work, and now he's more isolated and reliant on this new influence. That definitely gives you a nice way to show how the antagonist is pulling strings behind the scenes.
00;45;57;22 - 00;46;21;08
Speaker 1
Okay, I'd like you to get into your villain hat if you can, as much as you can, and I'd like us to kind of step into the perspective of the antagonist and how and a smart antagonist would try to to what he's trying to do.
00;46;21;10 - 00;46;43;27
Speaker 2
Absolutely. Let's dip into their mindset. So if we look at it from the antagonist angle, especially one who's smart and strategic, he's going to want to isolate the father step by step. The first thing he do is identify what the father relies on for stability, like his job, his family relationships, and his daily routines. Then the antagonist will start subtly undermining those pillars.
00;46;44;03 - 00;47;08;09
Speaker 2
He might create scenarios that cause tension at work, maybe feeding the father, little lies or exaggerations that make him distrust his coworkers or feel like he's not valued there. It's all about making him feel gradually more alienated from his normal support system. From the antagonist perspective, he'd be playing a long game, pushing the father bit by bit so that the father ends up leaning on him alone for reassurance or direction.
00;47;08;11 - 00;47;24;05
Speaker 2
And of course, he be careful to stay just out of sight enough that nobody suspects he's the one pulling the string, so he'd be very calculated about when and how he influences the father, always aiming to increase that dependance and erode the father's trust in any you know.
00;47;24;08 - 00;47;34;06
Speaker 1
Okay, let's focus on the father's sources of stability that are going to be targeted.
00;47;34;08 - 00;48;01;02
Speaker 2
Sure. Let's break those down. The father's main sources of stability are probably his job, his relationship with his daughters and maybe any close friends. Or have you see, so has those are the anchors that keep him grounded. So from antagonist perspective, you start by targeting those one by one. Maybe he engineered situations that cause the father to lose trust in a coworker, or maybe he subtly encourages the father to skip out on family events, causing friction with his daughters.
00;48;01;05 - 00;48;24;15
Speaker 2
Over time, each of those stable points gets chipped away, leaving the father more and more reliant on the antagonist for sense of stability. In other words, the antagonist is going after those core pillars of the father's life until the father feels like the antagonist is the only one who truly understands or supports him. It's a classic manipulation tactic, but it definitely fits into the scenario you're building.
00;48;24;18 - 00;48;39;24
Speaker 1
Okay, so we have job relationship with daughter's routine friends. Are there any other sources of stability that the father could rely on?
00;48;39;26 - 00;49;05;19
Speaker 2
Yeah, absolutely. Those are some core pillars, but you can definitely consider a few more subtle layers. For instance, maybe he has a particular hobby or a personal routine like going to the gym or a favorite coffee shop somewhere. He recharges on his own. That could be another small but meaningful anchor. He might also have a company outside of the family, like a sibling, an old friend, or even a mentor figure, someone he occasionally turns to for advice or perspective.
00;49;05;22 - 00;49;28;07
Speaker 2
If the antagonist can undermine that relationship as well, that's another layer of support gone. So aside from the big anchors like job and family, those personal habits or those smaller personal connections can also be targeted. The more the antagonist erodes all those little sources of normalcy, the more isolated and off balance the father become, which makes them easier to manipulate.
00;49;28;09 - 00;49;41;13
Speaker 1
Okay. And I think number five is going to be the bond with the wife. Or is the memory, the nice memories of the wife?
00;49;41;15 - 00;50;04;25
Speaker 2
Absolutely. That's a really poignant one. The fond memories of his wife are definitely a deep emotional anchor. If the antagonists contain or distort those memories, or even just create enough chaos that the father feels like he can't find comfort in them anymore, and that's another huge piece of the father's stability gone. In a way, that's one of the crueler tactics, because those memories would have been a source of solace.
00;50;04;27 - 00;50;18;27
Speaker 2
And once the antagonist starts to overshadow even that emotional range, it leaves the father feeling like he's got nowhere safe to turn. So, yeah, that's a really powerful and important piece to include as part of the antagonist strategy.
00;50;18;29 - 00;50;57;07
Speaker 1
Okay, staying in the antagonist perspective, if, it's the antagonist wants to fully kind of destroy this guy's life, right? We have job, relationship with daughters, routine friends, and bond with wife. So I would like you to put those in an order that would be the smartest for the antagonist. Antagonist to do. And and then, we'll go from there.
00;50;57;10 - 00;51;20;03
Speaker 2
Absolutely. Let's map that out from the antagonist strategic perspective. If the goal is to systematically break down the father's life, then you probably want to start with the areas that are a bit more external and then move inward to the deeply personal so as not antagonism. I do it in this order. First, start with the job. Undermining his professional stability first makes him feel insecure and anxious.
00;51;20;05 - 00;51;50;24
Speaker 2
It's a clear external structure that can crumble without necessarily causing immediate suspicion. At home. Second, go after his routine. Disrupting his daily habits or personal rituals destabilizes this sense of normalcy, makes him go off balance and more likely to lean on the antagonist versus the direction third, target his friends or company on. By cutting off those outside sources of emotional support, the antagonist isolates them further and makes him more dependent on just the people the antagonist can control for a strained relationship with his daughters.
00;51;50;27 - 00;52;09;25
Speaker 2
This is more personal and will hurt more deeply, but by now he's already feeling vulnerable and I wonder ability makes it easier for the antagonist to drive. Wedges between him and his daughter's finally go after the bond with his wife. Memory. That's the last the most intimate piece. Once that's disrupted, he's truly lost the inner emotional state space.
00;52;09;27 - 00;52;19;01
Speaker 2
By that point, the antagonist has effectively isolated him on off.
00;52;19;04 - 00;52;25;19
Speaker 1
Dang. That's brutal.
00;52;25;22 - 00;52;50;03
Speaker 2
Yeah, it really is. I mean, from a storytelling perspective, it's a pretty chilling and methodical way to break someone down, but it definitely makes for a strong and intense antagonist. And it sounds like you've got a really good handle on how to layer that tension. And those losses in a way that feels right is definitely a brutal path for the character, but it's a double powerful arc.
00;52;50;05 - 00;53;04;04
Speaker 1
Okay, that actually works perfectly because the cats won't really pick up on the trail until we hit number four.
00;53;04;06 - 00;53;29;22
Speaker 2
Exactly. That makes a ton of sense. The first few steps are subtle enough that the cats can kind of rationalize them away, or just not fully connect the dots, but once the antagonist starts messing with the father's relationship with his daughter, that's when the cats, and probably the readers really start to see that something's off. It's like the cats have a front row seat to a slow burn mystery, and by the time they notice the fourth step, they'll be ready to put more of the puzzle together.
00;53;29;24 - 00;53;37;00
Speaker 2
It sounds like a really compelling way to let the tension build naturally.
00;53;37;03 - 00;53;47;26
Speaker 1
So that means in the story, we're already at number four, but we haven't even touched one, two, and three yet.
00;53;47;28 - 00;54;12;28
Speaker 2
Right, exactly. And that's actually a pretty intriguing place to be in the story, if you're kind of dropping readers and the cat into the moment where things are just starting to visibly crack at home, and as you move forward, you can sprinkle in hints or even little flashbacks that show how those earlier steps happen. That way, readers and the cats realized, oh is earlier pillars were already being nudged out from under him before we even notice.
00;54;13;01 - 00;54;31;10
Speaker 2
It actually gives you a lot of room to build depth, because now you can reveal those earlier stages, this great unfolding history, so you in a great spot.
00;54;31;12 - 00;54;52;10
Speaker 1
So does that mean that we need to write more chapters? I don't know if I want to do the flashback concept, but like, maybe, maybe we could have discussions with the cats at certain checkpoints.
00;54;52;12 - 00;55;14;24
Speaker 2
Absolutely. You definitely have options there. You don't have to do traditional flashbacks if that doesn't fit your style. Instead, you can absolutely use those cat conversations as a way to fill in the blanks. So at certain points, the cats can sort of compare notes and piece together what they might have missed. Maybe they started noticing little details about how the father used to act, or things that have changed.
00;55;14;27 - 00;55;30;24
Speaker 2
And those little discussions can bring those earlier stages into focus without needing a full flashback some of the natural way to let the story unfold. Plus, it keeps the basic move and the three days and the cats feel like they're solving the mystery in real time.
00;55;30;26 - 00;55;51;00
Speaker 1
Yeah, so maybe we find a way. Maybe we continue, at four. But Olivia is at four, and the cats are really at one in chapter 8 or 9. I guess in chapter nine.
00;55;51;02 - 00;56;12;14
Speaker 2
Yeah, exactly. That's a neat way to handle it. You can have Olivia already feeling the direct impact. So for an active thing there at that four. But the cats are just starting to pick up the first clues. That means in chapter nine and onward, the cats can sort of slowly catch up to where Olivia is. They start at level one, noticing more oddities, and then work their way forward.
00;56;12;17 - 00;56;26;17
Speaker 2
It actually creates a nice layering effect. Olivia's experiences in the cats realizations can kind of meet in the middle, and that gives you a lot of meaning to build suspense and deepen the story as you go.
00;56;26;19 - 00;57;04;23
Speaker 1
Okay. Let's talk about the kind of layering with the cat and Olivia. Right. So Olivia is she has seen everything so far, and maybe we've seen little tidbits, right? Maybe we know the father lost his job. And like, he's been arguing on the phone. And so we've seen kind of that passively from Olivia's perspective. And so the cats are kind of like slowly piecing things together, right?
00;57;04;23 - 00;57;42;00
Speaker 1
Because if they if they're at four already, then, right, they don't know that he's totally being cool to just Olivia yet because that just started and this is like the first instance of it. Right? He he's kind of the antagonist is kind of, Kamino compartmentalizing these, steps and. Right. So chapter five, where he leaves them, I'm sorry.
00;57;42;03 - 00;57;56;04
Speaker 2
But you hit the daily limit for advanced voice.
00;57;56;06 - 00;58;30;14
Speaker 1
Okay, so we we were talking about, Olivia, being at, at step four, which is, relationship antagonist is controlling the relationship with the daughters, and we're going to use the cats kind of as detectives to, kind of connect the dots between what Olivia was seeing and, in different ways.
00;58;30;17 - 00;58;53;26
Speaker 2
That sounds like a fantastic plan. Using the cats as a little detective will definitely add a unique perspective and some fun mystery to the story. As Olivia notices the changes in their relationship with the father, the cats can piece together the bigger picture from their own observations. It's a great way to add that and keep the readers engaged as they try to connect the dots along with the cat, okay?
00;58;53;26 - 00;59;20;05
Speaker 1
And it kind of gives us like, almost like a checkpoint here. Because I was worried about, like, oh, like, this isn't gonna this isn't going to make sense, but. Right. It hasn't made sense to the cats until now at least. Steps one through three. Right. We know that if he's being mean to Olivia, then something serious is happening.
00;59;20;12 - 00;59;32;27
Speaker 1
And Olivia is doing this a long time because she speaks English and and the father just had that experience with her and and stuff like that.
00;59;33;00 - 00;59;57;23
Speaker 2
Absolutely. It creates a really nice alignment between the cats and the readers. The cats have been observing things from their own unique perspective and now they start to see the bigger picture as well, especially once Olivia's experiences line up with what they've been sensing. It's a clever way to build tension and keep everything consistent. I love how it's coming together.
00;59;57;25 - 01;00;22;12
Speaker 1
So maybe they'll just kind of, almost like lay out the, the kind of like detective board, right? They'll talk about how he goes. He used to go. He used to go out of the house more, and he came back and he was angry. And then he spent a little bit more time on his pottery, and he was happy, and that was a good thing.
01;00;22;14 - 01;00;42;04
Speaker 1
And so they didn't really think that much of it. They thought it was trending in the right direction. Right. And his routine kind of fell apart. So that's like, I don't know, can be interpreted in any kind of way. So let's talk about routine. Right. So so the job.
01;00;42;04 - 01;01;04;17
Speaker 1
A thing. They notice he hates his job and he's spending more time not doing his job. So like, cats don't like to go to work. So that seems like a positive, right? But, they don't know about the financial implications of that. Let's talk about the loss of his routine.
01;01;04;20 - 01;01;22;14
Speaker 2
I love how you're thinking about the cats perspective. So from their point of view, the loss of his routine might just seem like a sign of him having more free time. Which could be a positive thing. They might notice that he's not following the same schedule, and that he seems a bit more relaxed or a bit more involved in his pottery.
01;01;22;17 - 01;01;44;22
Speaker 2
Which they see is a good thing. Of course, they won't realize the underlying financial stress or the impact that it has on the family, but they'll definitely see it as a shift in his behavior. It's a great way to highlight how the antagonists plan is unfolding, even if the cats are a bit oblivious to the full picture just yet.
01;01;44;25 - 01;01;58;00
Speaker 1
Okay, and then I guess the angry phone calls start to creep in with the friends thing. Maybe.
01;01;58;02 - 01;02;18;27
Speaker 2
Exactly. The angry phone calls can be another subtle clue, but something is off. From the cats perspective, they might just think that the father is having some trouble with a friend or maybe a colleague, but they won't connect it to the larger scheme. It all adds to that gradual reveal and keeps the tension building in a really natural way.
01;02;18;29 - 01;02;26;04
Speaker 2
I love how these pieces are coming together.
01;02;26;06 - 01;02;31;15
Speaker 1
Okay. And then,
01;02;31;17 - 01;02;50;24
Speaker 1
And then that kind of leaves us for in the future, them to start witnessing his cruelty little by little. Not in not in the big kind of explosive moment that, Olivia felt,
01;02;50;27 - 01;03;20;23
Speaker 2
Yeah, absolutely. That's a perfect. It'll definitely create a more gradual and layered reveal for the readers. And it keeps the tension consistent. The couple slowly piece everything together, and it will feel more organic rather than a big shock. I think this pacing is going to make the story even more compelling. If you have any other ideas or details you want to explore on your fourth.
01;03;20;26 - 01;03;52;27
Speaker 1
Yeah. Just give me your thoughts on write the we we've talked a lot about his relationship with daughters and how that was going to go. But number five in the antagonists steps of manipulation is really kind of one that we've tossed around, but we really haven't made it a, an end game goal until now.
01;03;53;00 - 01;04;18;14
Speaker 2
That's a great point. It sounds like really making that bond with the wife's memory a central focus for the antagonist will add an extra layer of complexity to the story. It's not just about isolating him from his daughters or his job, but often about targeting the emotional connection he has to his late wife. That can add a lot of depth to the antagonist motivations and really highlight the stakes.
01;04;18;17 - 01;04;26;23
Speaker 2
We can definitely weave that in more intentionally as we continue.
01;04;26;26 - 01;04;40;24
Speaker 1
Okay. Do we want to have the end game complete on the father at the end of act one?
01;04;40;27 - 01;05;04;07
Speaker 2
That's an interesting question. Having the end game completed by the end of act one, I would definitely set a darker tone and raise the stakes for the rest of the story. But I could also make it a bit more challenging to keep the tension going. It might be more impactful to have the antagonist influence become more evident gradually, so that the readers and the cats continue to piece things together.
01;05;04;10 - 01;05;17;09
Speaker 2
That way you maintain a nice little suspense and keep the story engaging throughout, but it really depends on the kind of pacing and tone you want to set.
01;05;17;11 - 01;05;33;09
Speaker 1
Yeah, I think you're right. I think I think that he needs to get Lily on the hook before he totally, completes the father.
01;05;33;11 - 01;05;55;25
Speaker 2
That makes a lot of sense. Having Lily become more entangled in the antagonist, Webb will definitely add complexity and give you a strong driving force for the rest of the story. You know, keep the tension high and make the stakes even more original. I'm excited to see how that unfolds. If you need any more brainstorming or details, just let me know.
01;05;55;27 - 01;06;35;15
Speaker 1
Yeah. How do you think the antagonists and let's, let's, let's go back into the perspective of the antagonist. The antagonist is kind of like, weird and obsessed with Lily and kind of wants to, draw her closer to him without her. Really, like, knowing. How does he do that? Does he show? Does he love, the father and get Lily to fall for it with, with the help of this company?
01;06;35;17 - 01;07;00;21
Speaker 2
I love the idea of the antagonist being a bit subtle and manipulative. He could definitely start by being overly charming and attentive to the father. Making him feel appreciated and valued. That would not only boost the father's trust, but also create a sense of camaraderie. And then as the father gets more comfortable, Lily would naturally see that and feel more at ease around him as well.
01;07;00;23 - 01;07;12;13
Speaker 2
That way, the antagonists can gradually build that rapport with Lily without her suspecting anything. It's definitely a slow burn, but it makes the reveal even more impactful later on.
01;07;12;16 - 01;07;57;16
Speaker 1
Okay, so if Lily, if Lily sees her father, like, really break, she might, like, it might all fail, right? But what is a little bit more, sinister, I think, is that if she. If he uses the father while he's still, like, while while Lily can't sense what's going on right? He, like she love bonds the father in front of her, and, and she sees it as, like, a good thing that makes it make.
01;07;57;18 - 01;08;12;21
Speaker 1
That makes the father happy and stuff like that. So he kind of, like, entices her in and, like, almost like, gets her hooked on this phony, positive energy.
01;08;12;23 - 01;08;35;20
Speaker 2
That definitely adds a really chilling layer to the antagonist plan. By presenting this facade of, the cavity, making the father seem happy, Lily will naturally feel more ease and even grateful, which will make it that much harder for her to see through the manipulation later on. It's a clever strategy that really keeps her in the dark and makes the eventual reveal all the more impactful.
01;08;35;23 - 01;08;40;26
Speaker 2
I think that the fantastic direction to dig it.
01;08;40;28 - 01;08;46;07
Speaker 1
Okay. What is his first step with Lily?
01;08;46;09 - 01;09;07;00
Speaker 2
I think a great first step for the antagonist would be to find small, genuine ways to connect with Lily on a personal level, something that aligns with her interests or passions. Maybe he notices something she's interested in, like her photography or a hobby. And he gives her a thoughtful compliment or shows a bit of interest in it.
01;09;07;02 - 01;09;20;16
Speaker 2
Subtle but meaningful. And it sets the stage for her to feel comfortable and appreciative of his presence. Over time, these small gestures can build trust and make it easier for him to influence her later.
01;09;20;18 - 01;09;31;08
Speaker 1
Okay, that's really crafty. Give me an example of one of these thoughtful compliments.
01;09;31;11 - 01;09;55;17
Speaker 2
Absolutely. Let's say Lily is passionate about photography. The antagonist might notice a beautiful photo she took and casually mentioned something like, you know, I've seen a lot of photos in my life, but yours really captures, something special. Got a unique perspective. It's a small compliment, but it shows that he's paying attention, and genuinely appreciates her talent.
01;09;55;19 - 01;10;03;22
Speaker 2
That little bit of validation can go a long way in building a connection.
01;10;03;24 - 01;10;10;10
Speaker 1
Okay, that works.
01;10;10;12 - 01;10;24;02
Speaker 2
I'm so glad you liked it. It's always fun to explore these little details at depth to the characters in the storyline. If you have any more ideas, you want to bounce around or anything else I can help with this, let me know.
01;10;24;04 - 01;10;35;19
Speaker 1
Before we go, let's just do a quick brainstorm on how the antagonist would get her involved with, handling the clay.
01;10;35;21 - 01;11;01;11
Speaker 2
Absolutely. Let's brainstorm that, the antagonist could present the clay as a special project or a unique opportunity for Lily to learn something new. Maybe frames it as a way for her to explore her creativity or even as a bonding activity with her father. Which would make it feel very personal and meaningful. He could also emphasize how therapeutic and calming it is, making it sound like a special privilege.
01;11;01;14 - 01;11;10;02
Speaker 2
This way, I really would feel excited and one kind of get involved, not realizing the true nature of it.
01;11;10;04 - 01;11;21;13
Speaker 1
So maybe he guides the father to, offer it as, like, a bonding opportunity with Lily.
01;11;21;15 - 01;11;41;04
Speaker 2
Absolutely. That would be a really clever move. The antagonist could subtly suggest to the father that this clay project would be a great way for him and Lily to spend some quality time together. Especially if the father's feeling a bit distant. That way it feels like a heartfelt gesture, and Lily's more likely to jump on board.
01;11;41;07 - 01;11;47;10
Speaker 2
It's a great way to get her involved without raising any suspicions. I don't.
01;11;47;13 - 01;12;03;07
Speaker 1
Right. And her hope is that if she cheers her father, he'll stop being mean to Olivia.
01;12;03;10 - 01;12;17;27
Speaker 2
That's a really touching motivation for her character. It adds a lot of depth to her actions and makes her even more relatable and empathetic. If you ever want to dive deeper into how that dynamic evolves or anything else, just let me know.
01;12;17;29 - 01;12;32;02
Speaker 1
Yeah. I'd like you to kind of, think about how you would explore that angle.
01;12;32;05 - 01;13;01;16
Speaker 2
Absolutely. I'd love to explore that angle further. We can show Lily making small, thoughtful gestures to look, planning little family outings, encouraging his hobbies, or even subtly defending Olivia when tensions rise. Over time, we can show how her efforts impact the family dynamic and how the antagonists plan fully unfold the really big storyline to weave in.
01;13;01;19 - 01;13;34;16
Speaker 1
Okay, so let's let's get into that scene a little bit about her talking about how maybe she's talking to Olivia, about how if she helps her father cheer up, maybe she'll be nicer. Maybe she doesn't want to do the play, but she's doing it for Olivia.
01;13;34;18 - 01;13;56;00
Speaker 2
And that adds such a sweet layer to her character. It really shows how much she cares about her sister and how she's trying to hold the family together, as can be a great moment. And Olivia realizes all the little sacrifices her sister's making. If you want to flesh that scene out for or need any other idea, just let me know.
01;13;56;02 - 01;14;29;14
Speaker 1
Right. And so the father's being shady to Olivia, because he's, like, taking it out on the daughters, and he's taking it out on both of them a little bit, but he's going harder on Olivia, so it's easier to kind of, like, rationalize that away. And so the older daughter thinks that, like, hey, if I can do something to, like, cheer up, then, then maybe he'll be happier and, like, more nice to us and you.
01;14;29;17 - 01;14;49;26
Speaker 1
And what she doesn't know is this is her about to get hooked into the net of, Clay and the antagonist.
01;14;49;28 - 01;15;08;04
Speaker 2
That creates a really compelling and layered dynamic. It's going to add a lot of tension and complexity to the story. As Lily gets drawn in without realizing it. I love how this is shaping it. If you want to explore any specific scenes for me, more ideas on here. Help!
01;15;08;07 - 01;15;30;28
Speaker 1
Okay, I think that's a good stopping point. We really got through a lot of like, we only wrote chapter nine, but we really kind of, nailed out a lot of, like, thematic and kind of logistical, and that was a really good one.
01;15;31;00 - 01;15;48;12
Speaker 2
I'm so glad you found it helpful. It's always exciting to see how all these pieces come together. I'm really looking forward to continuing the journey with you. Just let me know whenever you're ready to dive back in and we'll keep building on this. Thanks for the great brainstorming session.
01;15;48;14 - 01;15;49;24
Speaker 1
These.